08-13-2011 at 7:39 AM

<b> Guys please calm down! This is not the place for an argument that gets out of hand but a <i>civilized debate</i> anyone that continues on in this way will be banned from this forum!</b>

08-12-2011 at 11:08 PM

As I said, I'm going to ignore all personal attacks in this thread. I believe I've been perfectly civil in responding to you, and I would appreciate the same in return. Telling someone to shut their mouth isn't really appropriate.<br /> <br /> As a note, however, the reason the blastocyst bit kept getting repeated was because no one would respond to it with anything that had any weight in the debate. Many times, things get repeated in a non-formal debate because of exactly that: it gets ignored, somehow, either on purpose or accidentally skipped over. So it bears repetition. That isn't a sign of my lack of debate skills. I knew I was doing that.<br /> I was someone's child. I was once a blastocyst. It's not an offensive term, and I'm sorry you took it as such. I never meant any sort of attack against children of [removed by mod], but to assume all women are able to deal with that horrific act in such a way is unrealistic. Women who have been [removed by mod] do not always want to birth and mother the child of their attacker. Add to that the fact that not everyone believes in your god, and this debate is a little more complex than that.<br /> <br /> Again, I think you need to take a breather. I did not and would not insult you or your child(ren). You're taking this far too personally.

08-12-2011 at 11:01 PM

I was not angry up until this point. [removed by mod] I tried to have a debate earlier, but all you did was shove the same point down my throat over and over again "Blastocysts are Parasites". That [removed by mod] sentence has been in atleast 3 or 4 of your posts, in a debate, your not supposed to respond with the same darn argument every time, you are supposed to introduce new facts, and present a fact that would actually change a Pro-Lifer's mind, not going back and forth with the same "Women's Rights!" banter. Honestly,I am not trying to ban abortion, I am trying to get people to see it would be much better for the child to be born, that way God could take him/her to heaven if they find God and they could live in paradise after death. as a woman, I don't care one way or another [removed by mod], or if I planned it to have children, which I have on 2 occasions, If I conceive a child, I will make my best attempt to take it to term, and then give it up for adoption if all else fails at home. If a woman wants an abortion, she will get it, no matter if it is legal or not, as was done in the early 1900's and back. you are being extremely insensitive about this debate, and I quote, in the original post that Merideth wrote above, "I hope other members remember to be sensitive on this touchy subject in order to prevent someone's feelings getting hurt." You have extremely hurt my feelings [removed by mod]. If you told my children that that is what they were considered before they were born, as you say, that a child is a parasite until it is a fetus, they would be offended and very angry. [removed by mod]

08-12-2011 at 10:25 PM

First off, I'm not leaving the board just because you bluster at me. I'm just going to ignore you because it feels like you're trying to bully the pro-choice folks off the board. We didn't "gang up on" anyone, we simply pointed out reasons they were wrong or misinformed, at least in our eyes. That's what a debate forum is all about; it's called mature discussion. Show me somewhere, please, where I have been overly rude, insulting, or anything out of line for a debate. Quote me something. Seriously. If I was out of line, I'd like to apologize for it.<br /> <br /> But honestly? Please back off the intimidation factor. Seriously, I'm not angry or afraid of you. Jesus. I just think you're being incredibly aggressive [removed by mod], and I think that is breaking into the debate far more than any of my posts were. Considering I was on-topic and cited numerous sources to back up numbers I was quoting, etc.<br /> <br /> Again, if you want to reply to any of the points I've actually made, I'd be glad to debate them with you in a civil tone [removed by mod]

08-12-2011 at 9:28 PM

I am cool, calm and collected, and happen to have sent this from my I-Phone, and I am currently at finishing up a big business deal on a call, so i can't step back from the key board. [removed by mod] Thank you for your "consideration" and thinking about me enough to tell me to step away, but I am a big girl and can handle it [removed by mod]

08-12-2011 at 9:14 PM

I'm not going to reply to any post that tries to humiliate me for being, heaven forbid, eloquent. In a debate.<br /> <br /> I was never trying to "feel like I won." I was making my point, and I thought pretty well considering I answered most objections thrown at me.<br /> <br /> I think you need to step back from the keyboard. You're obviously just angry, at this point, and yelling at me in a debate forum isn't going to help matters.

08-12-2011 at 8:59 PM

"I'm actually disappointed that you resorted to trying to belittle thoughtful, well-worded posts as "copied and pasted." Seriously? You can't argue about any points I actually made, so you turn to insulting my intelligence and my ability to defend my beliefs, into which I've put a lot of thought? That's sad, and it is not a proper debate tactic."<br /> 1. I am not even attempting to "belittle" your [removed by mod] little post, I am simply stating that you don't need to get so into this debate debacle so much that you have to resort to that type of posting, the fact that you are dissapointed scares me, because you were apparently looking forward to my post. I like debating for the fun of it, as it is most of the time a much more civil debate on Ala than with debating with my kids. This debate, however, is purely 2-3 Choice users against 2-3 Life users, pitting themselves so angrily in posting that they have to use such seemingly witty posting to make themselves feel as if they won the "debate". And, I never said cut and dry that you copied and pasted, I was trying to hint that I have read many articles about pro-choice, and almost every one of your posts look exactly the same as those articles, almost copy and paste formulated. Debating, and believe me, I know what a debate is, I was on my high school debate team and later in college too, is about simply stating the facts and showing how your side is superior, not who can come of with the most [removed by mod]. This thread was most likely made purely for some calm, and maybe a bit heated debating, not two users attacking one, and yes [removed by mod], as she would post and then both of you would post two or three posts on how wrong she was [removed by mod]. the only reason and am even continuing to show this starved thread my attention is I don't want Merideth [removed by mod] by herself. If you two really want to have a debate, make your own thread and see who will post in it, [removed by mod]. Please, I welcome and implore you to, so this thread can [removed by mod] can get back to a normal debate.

08-11-2011 at 5:44 PM

<i>"there is no way most of you would say half of what you have said face to face with someone opposing your beliefs, because when you are at your computer, you have time to think out your response so it sounds witty and convincing"</i><br /> <br /> Actually, I have had this conversation in person many, many times. Yes, we have time to research, construct a post, reply, etc when posting on the internet. Guess what? That's what an online debate <i>is</i> and that's why the debate forums are here. You can say "witty and convincing" all you want, but it's pretty convincing when people are providing <i>proof</i> to what they are saying. My friends and I enjoy having long discussions like this outside of the computer. Heck, there are even various places who have competitions for this sort of thing. This doesn't just happen "when hiding behind a computer."<br /> <br /> <i>" If you feel this strongly about something, go out and do something about it, not argue and belittle strangers on the internet, however impowering it may be to feel smarter than someone else."</i><br /> <br /> Again, this forum is here specifically for us to debate things. Many of us do take part in "doing something about things" outside of these forums, but that doesn't mean we can't also discuss it here. Some of us enjoy debating and having conversations that isn't just "puppies and rainbows and kitties, oh my!"<br /> <br /> <i>"There was no reason for anyone to call my mother a "red herring" and you don't have the right to be rude about my reasons for believing in something,"</i><br /> <br /> I didn't see anyone being rude to you, simply calling out why your reasons were invalid. I understand you have your beliefs, but beliefs arn't always based in truth and people were pointing out why. If you have your beliefs and don't want people to tell you why they are wrong, please don't post in a debate forum. The mods themselves have pointed out that if you don't want something talked about (like the "red herring" situation) then don't bring it up on the threads because that does leave it open to be discussed.<br /> <br /> <i>"an you most certaintly don't need to become so consumed in this that you need to spend a very long while typing out all of those posts, that is even if you did type them, not just copied and pasted them, in that instance you should give proper credit to your post to the person who wrote them, so we all can know who actually came up with that little tid-bit of knowledge"</i><br /> <br /> I can assure you almost everyone here typed up those posts themselves. If they did in fact use something that someone else wrote, then they creditted or linked to the original article. It doesn't take hours to type up these kind of posts, more like a few minutes.

08-11-2011 at 5:44 PM

Really? You think that I can't think these things out properly in conversation? I hate to break it to you, but it takes me no more than 10 minutes to really type all of my posts out, other than finding links to provide that support the things I already know and believe.<br /> <br /> I didn't call your mother a "red herring." That's a very specific term that means a very specific thing when used in a debate context, and that's what the scenario with your mother actually was. It wasn't an insult, and you took it far too personally.<br /> <br /> You have no idea who I am in reality. I'm quite active in my local political scene. Arguing on the internet doesn't change that in the slightest, and for you to imply that I only talk about my beliefs instead of acting upon them is not only offensive, but incredibly foolish.<br /> <br /> Finally, just because I'm arguing about something on the internet doesn't mean that I don't also carry these same views in reality. If you talked to me about this in person, I would say the exact same things. I'm actually disappointed that you resorted to trying to belittle thoughtful, well-worded posts as "copied and pasted." Seriously? You can't argue about any points I actually made, so you turn to insulting my intelligence and my ability to defend my beliefs, into which I've put a lot of thought? That's sad, and it is not a proper debate tactic.

08-11-2011 at 5:28 PM

If you don't want a baby, take the pill and use protection. Or are you too "caught in the mood" to think of it?! :| If you can't do it responsibly, don't do it at all. :P

08-11-2011 at 4:57 PM

I am sorry to break it to you, but the only reason most of the people on this thread are able to let themselves say these things is because they are behind the cloak of the internet, and that makes them feel secure enough to not have to deal with the social consequence side of what they are saying. there is no way most of you would say half of what you have said face to face with someone opposing your beliefs, because when you are at your computer, you have time to think out your response so it sounds witty and convincing, in real human conversation, however, most of these posts would not continue past the first paragraph. If you feel this strongly about something, go out and do something about it, not argue and belittle strangers on the internet, however impowering it may be to feel smarter than someone else. There was no reason for anyone to call my mother a "red herring" and you don't have the right to be rude about my reasons for believing in something, an you most certaintly don't need to become so consumed in this that you need to spend a very long while typing out all of those posts,[removed by mod], not just copied and pasted them, in that instance you should give proper credit to your post to the person who wrote them, so we all can know who actually came up with that little tid-bit of knowledge

07-22-2011 at 11:46 PM

Sorry, but debating with someone who is willfully ignorant is completely pointless. Well, either that, or you are just trolling at this point.<br /> <br /> Honestly, I think you need to excuse yourself from the debate forums. You refuse to acknowledge any facts that people point out, you provide absolutely no support for your own arguments, and you let your emotions get the better of you. That is NOT what a debate forum is for, it is for the discussion of facts and that alone. Several people have brought this up to you already. If you can't provide that, you really have no business posting in a <b>debate</b>.

07-22-2011 at 9:01 PM

"At this point I am done debating with you until you can give me some cold hard facts, which again, is what a debate is based on."<br /> <br /> Thank God.

07-22-2011 at 3:23 AM

Meredith, the "point" to you providing proof is because - without it - you're not debating. You're just arguing.

07-22-2011 at 12:58 AM

<i>"i don't want to hear "it's not a baby scientifically" because no matter what it is a human and the point is that it Will in less then a year,,, it will."</i><br /> <br /> It will eventually, but not if it is aborted before it <b>becomes</b> a baby. No matter how much you "don't want to hear it," it's a fact and that's that. You are arguing for the rights of something that doesn't exist. It isn't a baby yet and therefore does not have the same rights as a human, nor does it trump the rights of the mother (and father) who are already living. <br /> <br /> <i>"and you want me to pull up cases where a child wants to live even though it's a tramatic life it has to go through?? youre just being ridiculous, it is out there whether i personally know of cases or not, there are cases of it and if you don't believe there are that's just insane."</i><br /> <br /> I'm being ridiculous for asking for proof that everything will be okay if abortion is banned and people are forced to take care of unwanted children? Meredith, a debate is about FACTS, NOT your opinion, and you are providing absolutely no facts at all and continously repeating your own opinion.<br /> <br /> At this point I am done debating with you until you can give me some cold hard facts, which again, is what a debate is based on.

07-21-2011 at 6:35 PM

i don't want to hear "it's not a baby scientifically" because no matter what it is a human and the point is that it Will in less then a year,,, it will. and you want me to pull up cases where a child wants to live even though it's a tramatic life it has to go through?? youre just being ridiculous, it is out there whether i personally know of cases or not, there are cases of it and if you don't believe there are that's just insane. i had a best friend named Melissa, she's an orphan. to my discomfort i asked her if she wished she was aborted, and she said no. i just don't see the point in giving you examples, because no matter how many stories i tell or don't tell, it's out there. <br /> <br /> Why does it not matter than in less than a year it will be scientifically a 'baby' why does the present, matter more, than the future??

07-20-2011 at 10:48 PM

<i>"There's an edit button for a reason???? please do not step on my last nerve, i decided to post again instead of edit so sue me"</i><br /> <br /> I was just letting you know it was there since you were claiming your post had been cut off. If you are getting so hot tempered about this I suggest you take a breath, and step away from the forums for a bit. That was nothing to get angry over.<br /> <br /> <i>"What kind of evidence do you need for the fact that there is always a possibility that things might work out anyway????? youre just being so impossible right now, it's a true statement,</i><br /> <br /> If it's true, please show me some facts. As it stands, there are by far more facts proving it is likely to turn out bad than good.<br /> <br /> <i>"Where's your evidence to disprove That???"</i><br /> <br /> It isn't my place to find the facts needed to support your argument, it's yours. Jive, myself, and many others have already given you facts about why your reasons are not logical enough to ban abortion, all of which you have completely ignored. <br><br><i>"what if you aborted a baby, that really wanted to live even though it fully understands what kind of trauma it will go through???"</i><br><br /> Again, facts prove that at the point abortion is legal, <b>it is not a baby</b>, no matter how much you say or wish it was. <b>Science proves it isn't</b>, it can't think, it can't feel, it can't anything. Therefore it is <b>impossible</b> that the so called <br /> "baby" "might want to live!"

07-20-2011 at 10:15 PM

what if you aborted a baby, that really wanted to live even though it fully understands what kind of trauma it will go through??? <br /> <br /> Face it, the parents are Guessing whether or not the child will want to live. because you never know how strong of a fighter that child might be. <br /> <br /> Where's your evidence to disprove That???

07-20-2011 at 10:13 PM

i refused to believe that a parent can just KNOW that a child wouldn't want to live, that's just Ludricous.<br /> <br /> There's an edit button for a reason???? please do not step on my last nerve, i decided to post again instead of edit so sue me.<br /> <br /> What kind of evidence do you need for the fact that there is always a possibility that things might work out anyway????? youre just being so impossible right now, it's a true statement, :: No one can ever Really know if the unborn child will want to live anyway no matter what the situation. And there is always a possibility it might work out, That's Just How It Is.<br /> <br /> and they have other people they can go to, they can hold a baby shower and ask for the books and classes, they can ask other pregnent women or mothers or go to a free clinic and ask for help

07-20-2011 at 10:41 AM

All I can really add to this whole thing is that I think certain people are confused over what "debate" actually means.<br /> <br /> Debating is about taking facts or irrefutable proof that supports two sides of an argument, and then trying to reach a common understanding based on evidence. Debate is not about pitting -opinions- against each other, and it's getting tiresome seeing the same people making the same biased, opinion-based arguments over and over, turning a blind eye to valuable facts.<br /> <br /> If you have no facts to support your opinions, there's not a lot of point continuing to argue, because you can't back up your own claims.