03-11-2011 at 5:05 AM

If they are not altered, they should not be outside and allowed to procreate willy nilly. Period. There are too many cats that wind up dead in shelters, on roads, and in the mouths of coyotes.<br><br>No cat is "too big" to be eaten by a predator (at least not here in the US). Especially since there are stray dogs almost everywhere that would kill a cat in a heartbeat.

03-11-2011 at 4:44 AM

Okay, try putting yourself in my place. I have a horse. He has grain kept in the barn. Hay. Leather tack that would be ruined if chewed. I also have 4 cats. They have food, water, and are loved at all times. They have no tags, are not "fixed" and almost never come in the house. Oh, and 3 of the 4 were BORN outside. We live right near a county road, and they have never been hit by a car. A few months ago one of my cats went missing, but he was far to huge and fat and lazy to have been eaten, I figure he's in someone's house eating the day away.<br /> <br /> Anyways, the point is, my cats keep the mice down very nicely. 3 of the 4 never leave our property of 2 1/2 acres. The one that does, sleeps here every night except for when he gets trapped in a garage/shed/container of some sort and comes when called. They HATE being indoors, more than swimming. My one most "feral" cat, if you could call him that, would break through glass to get back outside. Last time we brought him in, he had an accident, a puddle on the floor, because he was so scared. Keep in mind that most "barn cats" keep poison out of the area because the cats keep the mice down.

03-5-2011 at 3:59 AM

Dae, I do believe cats here have to be tagged.<br><br>Fyrella, I put my cat on a harness + leash when we go to the vets and it doesn't stop him from straining and pulling for the doorway lol<br /> <br />

03-5-2011 at 1:16 AM

Thumbs up for trying Fyrella!<br /> <br /> My neighbour's cat killed a lizard in my front yard yesterday, I need to find a way of discouraging it. I don't mind cats being kept only in their owner's yards, but when they wander outside it's an issue. <br /> <br /> I'm considering loading a water pistol with green food dye and spraying it whenever I see it. Not harmful to the cat and maybe they'll get the hint.<br /> <br /> ETA: Also, by law here, pet cats must be identified by a microchip. Is it optional in America?

03-4-2011 at 6:26 PM

Oh, right. Forgot about that. :x<br /> <br /> I just mean letting your cat outdoors with no means of ID'ing them is not a good idea at all. <br /> <br /> I think when we get our cats, I'll talk to my mom about getting their ears tatooed because that way people can see at a glance that our kitties are pets, not just random strays.<br /> <br /> I talked to her about keeping them indoors and she says we can try to keep them more indoors than we did our other cats, but she's against not letting them out at all. (I knew she would be.) :P<br /> <br /> One of the cats will be more 'my' cat, and with that one I'll probably leash train it and walk it sometimes. (Not to mention that getting cats used to a leash is super useful for vet visits and the like.) <br /> <br /> I like this debate. It's a debate, sure, but nobody is trying to rip anybody else's face off. xD

03-4-2011 at 2:29 PM

Lol @ the people who are saying cats don't walk on leashes. I have two indoor cats and I've walked one of my cats down to the icecream store before.<br>That probably makes me a weird, creepy loser but he[my cat] likes it so idc.<br><br>EDIT: I don't walk the other cat because he obsesses over smelling every single blade of grass for other cats.

03-4-2011 at 12:01 AM

Fyr, actually, collars on outdoor cats can be a death sentence. If your cat is a climber or tries to dart under a fence, collars can get caught, and the "break away" ones don't always perform as advertised.<br /> <br /> I would suggest microchipping if outdoor cats are an absolute necessity...but again, I don't think they ever really are.

03-3-2011 at 10:58 PM

One point I will make is that letting cats outside without tags is especially irresponsible. Wildlife issues aside, letting your cats outside without a tag/collar on is just about the worst thing you can do as far as cat ownership is concerned.<br /> <br /> You want to let your cat outside? I'm not going to stop you because frankly it's none of my business.<br /> <br /> But please, for the love of your pet, give it a collar with an ID tag. You can even home make it with one of those plastic key tag things. <br /> <br /> If you're not going to bother ID tagging your cat, DO NOT let it outside - it's just asking to be stolen or poisoned. Also, if it gets hit by a car, you're about 10 times less likely to find out about it, because if the cat has no ID tag, the person who hit your cat is not going to go through 1000 houses trying to figure out who's cat he's killed.<br /> <br /> Hate to put it that way, but it's true. :/

03-3-2011 at 5:53 PM

<i>So it is highly possible to have cats that don't harm the wildlife to much.</i><br /> <br /> Yes, it is, but why even take the chance? There's dangerous things outside for the cat, and you can't see what's happening if the cat is roaming outside of your supervision. There's too many things that could very easily and very quickly go wrong...for wildlife and for your cat.

03-3-2011 at 5:35 PM

Nitrous my cat is almost like that:P She only ever caught on mole so far. We watch her and she usually stays inside during the day. We've watched her and she is way to scared of <u>everything</u> to hunt right. So she just sleeps all day.<br /> <br /> Though the cats my aunt had hunted all the time. Yet they never brought back a single bird (they bring back everything) rabbits, bats, mice, maybe a snake.... never went after my aunts fish, Didn't touch birds either.<br /> <br /> So it is highly possible to have cats that don't harm the wildlife to much.

03-3-2011 at 1:40 PM

I've kept cats all my life. The buggers will kill things when they're not even hungry.<br /> <br /> I was raised with declawed cats and only learned -very- recently that declawing is not so good. My cats would be indoor regardless of this. Part of this is due to the dangers of coyotes, and what they would do to our native bird species, even without claws. Or what our native bird species would do to them. We have eagles here. ;)<br /> <br /> We do have a 'problem cat' though, sort of. He's my brother's cat, and he refuses to take him to his apartment, or pay to get him neutered. He slips out, kills rats (and only rats, for some reason) and leaves them on the porch as 'presents'. I don't want another cat, but I think I'm going to have to break down, get him some claw caps, get him neutered, and make sure he stays inside. It's either that or the (no kill) shelter. I'd rather the latter, but I'd also rather not face my linebacker-built sibling's wrath for taking his cat to the shelter.<br /> <br /> Sorry, rambling. I dislike letting cats outside, especially cats that have claws or no claw caps. It's a danger to other animals, and to the cat, and they are generally hardwired to kill things. You wouldn't just let an animal-killing dog run wild in an unfenced area outside without a leash, would you?

03-1-2011 at 8:09 PM

"People who don't believe their cats are hunting are fooling themselves."<br /> <br /> In the twelve years I've had my cat, she has never once "hunted" a single thing. Suppose she's A-typical. We got her from the local AWL when she was about two. She's never played with toys, never left us "presents", never used a scratching post, never had an interest in chasing things or pestering the local wildlife. <br /> <br /> I've had pet leopard geckos, birds, sugar gliders, and snakes. I frequently let them explore the house under my supervision. My cat would simply look at whatever creature I had out and then walk away. <br /> <br /> We used to let her roam when we didn't live in my current household. But she never really went far. We had a huge backyard and since she's been the only cat we've had, we believed it would be healthy for her to meet a few of the neighbor cats.<br /> <br /> We were playing with fire. Luckily nothing ever happened. She's always been healthy, never even had a flea. We now keep her indoors most of the time, and if she follows us out she stays on the porch. But I see people all the time who keep their cats outside. Some of them are blind, sick, my friend's cat had a piece of his tail fall off. It's really awful.

03-1-2011 at 7:08 PM

<i>Dae, remember the US has had natural predators for millions of years including those of the feline type, both big and small. Cats here dont make that big of an impact on our wildlife, our wildlife has adapted to that threat. </i><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2700103/domestic_cats_threaten_migratory_songbird.html?cat=53">That is not true.</a><br><a href="http://library.fws.gov/bird_publications/songbrd.html#Cat">At all.</a>

03-1-2011 at 12:58 PM

Dae, remember the US has had natural predators for millions of years including those of the feline type, both big and small. Cats here dont make that big of an impact on our wildlife, our wildlife has adapted to that threat. <br />

03-1-2011 at 10:36 AM

Easy, it will kill not only the rodents, but larger animals, such as birds of prey, canines, felines, opossums, racoons, as well as anything else that can potentially get into it, things a cat could not kill. This can be by the animal personally consuming it, or prey that has, as the rodent can be eaten after it has been poisoned, passing it along. Cats are more discriminate than poison in this way, I don't see a cat killing the local owl population, in fact quite the opposite, however, owls dieing due to eating poisoned rodents was a problem at my grandparents after someone mistakenly convened them it was more humane. Therefore, yes poison can walk out of your yard.<br /> <br /> Poisoning is perhaps one of the most indiscriminate ways of pest control, it doesn't care what it kills or how much. A cat will only kill something it can potentially eat, and even then the success rate of hunting is not 100%. Also like I stated, a main reason why is I live in the middle of no where, and mice become a real problem real fast. Also do not think I did not research the local bird populations, of all of the small birds found in my area, only 3 are listed as vulnerable, of which the cause is stated to be habitat loss and competition with invasive birds (such as starlings).

03-1-2011 at 1:59 AM

Veltress: While I am against poison in general, I am curious about this line.<br /> <br /> "Poison was already a no go in my mind, its indiscriminate, and will kill any animal not just rodents."<br /> <br /> How are cats any different? Cats do not discriminate about the wildlife they kill, and poison doesn't walk out of your house/yard.

02-28-2011 at 10:07 PM

Personally part of the indoor/outdoor cat situation depends on where you live. <br /> <br /> While I lived in Florida, urban area, I never allowed my cat out for several reasons. First he was not neutered, we lived close to the road, killing of local wildlife, potential theft, feral dogs/cats, potential poisoning. As you can see there were several very good reasons to not let the cat out unsupervised <b>ever</b>. I trained him to harness and leash, and it was quite fine. <br /> <br /> I moved to a farm in rural Oklahoma, no joke my nearest neighbor is 10 minute drive, the town is 40 minutes. I personally own 180 acres, and the land that is beside mine has cattle not houses. When I first moved here, we had 2 feral cats that we kept indoors or leash the first 6 months. However there was a marked rodent problem, and the options were poison, traps or let the cats out sometimes. Poison was already a no go in my mind, its indiscriminate, and will kill any animal not just rodents. Traps we tried, live ones, the rodents simply squeezed out, and we only caught feral cats or opossums. <br /> <br /> This left the last option, these cats were neutered/spay after we had captured them, so no kitten problems. It makes a large dent in rodents right by the house, though no difference in the population at the barn which is a good 15 minute walk from the house. I like to spy on my cats when they are outside, which is only allowed while I am home, they mostly hide under the house. What I can tell from the gifts they bring me they catch mostly mice and rats, and fish (I have one weirdo cat who fishes). <br /> <br /> Why am I so against rodents in or near my house besides the minor property damage, and general ick? <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002358/">Hanta Virus</a>, there was in fact a case in the near rural area, meaning it is highly possible the rodents on my property also have it. <br /> <br /> But like I said early on, I believe a lot if it is where you live, I've had both indoor and in/out cats. Letting cats irresponsibly roam (and in my mind this means, intact, no shots, no identification, near roads) is a major no-no of cat owning. Letting kitty out for a few hours while you are home and make sure it comes back inside when you call is fine. I do not approve of "barn cats" which in my area refers to feral cats that you claim ownership of, generally not neuter/spay or fed and left outdoors at all times.

02-28-2011 at 6:02 PM

I don't think it's right to have any animal wandering off your property, cats included. It's not safe and not everyone loves cats as much as me. If they stay in your backyard it's fine.

02-27-2011 at 11:32 PM

In my neighborhood other cats are a danger to cats sometimes. Diseases that don't have available vaccinations for are common in my area. Our neighbors lost three of their cats because of it. It's only been getting worse.<br /> <br /> The shelters have had issues with cats picked up in this area.<br /> <br /> Last week there was a dead cat in our bushes. I didn't recognize it but I went around asking people if they were missing a cat of the same description.<br /> <br /> My grandma "took care of it" and I put bleach on the spot were it had died.<br /> <br /> The thing that drives me nuts, is that my mother does not pay attention or really care about our worries and lets our cats out all the time.

02-27-2011 at 10:25 PM

And this is why I like you, Fyr. You're reasonable. &lt;3