04-3-2011 at 10:47 PM

"That works for you and yours, but that isn't the same for everyone."<br /> <br /> <br /> A responsible owner would take the extra step to prevent that. If not, they should not have that animal.<br /> <br /> "Cats come from bigger cats its only with careful breeding that they are now demestacated. however no animal is TRULEY demestacted, they still have the instinks there ansesters did. people go camping, Why? because they like it, its a promal thing people like being outside, same as cats and dogs. if people where not allowed to go outside cabin feaver sets in. I believe cabin feaver can set in for cats as well. fix your pet, microchip it, let the cat out side."<br /> <br /> <br /> If they weren't domesticated they wouldn't be called "Domesticated Animals"<br /> <br /> A domesticated animal is such because they cannot survive in the wild.<br /> <br /> Edit: The definition of Domesticated has nothing to do with primal instincts, it has to do with being accustomed to humans, for example wolves don't bark but when they became dogs they did. And us humans understand different types of barks,if you have Netflix watch Dogs Decoded.<br /> <br /> Domestication (from Latin domesticus) or taming is the process whereby a population of animals or plants, through a process of selection, becomes accustomed to human provision and control. A defining characteristic of domestication is artificial selection by humans. ...

04-3-2011 at 10:44 PM

And just for clarification. Domestication does not mean "lack of instincts."<br /> <br /> <i>Domestication (from Latin domesticus) or taming is the process whereby a population of animals or plants, through a process of selection, becomes accustomed to human provision and control.</i>

04-3-2011 at 10:42 PM

Yes, but that's why we have a responsibility to watch after the animals we created through artificial selection and unnatural breeding. We have a responsibility not only to them, but to keeping them from harming the natural world into which we artificially introduced them.

04-3-2011 at 10:40 PM

Cats and dogs are domesticated. Otherwise, feral ones wouldn't be such an aberration...not to mention pest.<br /> <br /> No there not, have you seen a cat stock a bird? it looks JUST like a lion. its facinateing. no animal is truely demestacated. theres always the potenchil that there instents will kick in, no matter the amount of training you do.

04-3-2011 at 10:33 PM

Cats and dogs <i>are</i> domesticated. Otherwise, feral ones wouldn't be such an aberration...not to mention pest.<br /> <br /> My kitties are perfectly happy and healthy. They get exercise and play. They aren't bored or deprived in any way.<br /> The same cannot be said for the 4 month old kitten I saw hit by a car on my way home last week.<br><br>Edit because my mouth is too big. Cats are not a natural predator in North America (and many other places). Nature cannot adapt to invasive species like this one. That's why they're invasive. Add to that the fact that the feline and canine populations are obviously bolstered by human intervention, and you can surely see how it's an unfair advantage.

04-3-2011 at 10:27 PM

Wrong. Just because your cat isn't bringing it's kills to you doesn't mean it's not killing birds.<br /> <br /> i never said my cat was not killing birds. <br /> <br /> <br /> It's called being responsible and vigilant, we have baby locks on all cabinets and doors.<br /> <br /> That works for you and yours, but that isn't the same for everyone. <br /> <br /> Cats come from bigger cats its only with careful breeding that they are now demestacated. however no animal is TRULEY demestacted, they still have the instinks there ansesters did. people go camping, Why? because they like it, its a promal thing people like being outside, same as cats and dogs. if people where not allowed to go outside cabin feaver sets in. I believe cabin feaver can set in for cats as well. fix your pet, microchip it, let the cat out side. <br /> <br /> i did read those articals they never menchioned howmeny birds where taged in the first place, but they DID menchion that only 80% of the birds where killed, and only 47% where killed by cats. now if they only taged 10 birds i would agree, but knowing the way science works, they probly taged in the hundreds, the population will change and adapt, its called nature thats what it does.

04-3-2011 at 10:15 PM

"<br /> no its not really needed, one bird maybe once or twice a month is not going to cause the local population of blue jays to go extint. "<br /> <br /> That's what the backyard breeders said, and look at the overpopulation.<br /> <br /> Now I am not saying it's like backyard breeders because they're increasing the population. But it's that "one time won't hurt" attitude that makes it happen.<br /> <br /> "In all honesty i think everyone who insists that cats are in more danger outside than inside forget the dangers of being IN a home at all times. Cats are sneekey, they get into cabnits, ive seen it. there are alot of different kinds of poins in a home, youve got bleach, amonia, pinesole. if you wash your floors with pinesal and you cat walks over the floor then licks its feet you could say you just unentenchnoly poisend your own cat."<br /> <br /> <br /> It's called being responsible and vigilant, we have baby locks on all cabinets and doors. They keep the cats out too.<br /> The stuff in our house that would be dangerous to cats is kept in out bathroom and the bathroom is closed 100% except when someone is going in to use it.<br /> <br /> Besides the dangers outside greatly outnumber the ones of being indoors. If you have a 10% chance of dying and a 0.01% chance of dying, which would you take? The safer one.<br /> <br /> When I cannot supervise my cats they're kept in a room that has nothing harmful to them in it, it has their litter box and a few beds, a dresser with clothes, a closet (which is closed, and only contains clothes).<br /> If I didn't have a safe room for them, then I'd crate them when I'm gone. Like I do with my dogs.

04-3-2011 at 10:13 PM

<i>no its not really needed, one bird maybe once or twice a month is not going to cause the local population of blue jays to go extint.</i><br>Wrong. Just because your cat isn't bringing it's kills to you doesn't mean it's not killing birds. The BlueJay population around my neighbourhood has gone down extremely dramatically [I think there's maybe 2 Bluejays around here now?] because my neighbour feeds stray cats and lets them breed like crazy. :I<br><br><i>In all honesty i think everyone who insists that cats are in more danger outside than inside forget the dangers of being IN a home at all times. Cats are sneekey, they get into cabnits, ive seen it. there are alot of different kinds of poins in a home, youve got bleach, amonia, pinesole. if you wash your floors with pinesal and you cat walks over the floor then licks its feet you could say you just unentenchnoly poisend your own cat.</i><br>Not once have I ever had the problem of my cat getting into chemicals. I did have him attacked a couple times by stray cats in my driveway though :)

04-3-2011 at 10:02 PM

no its not really needed, one bird maybe once or twice a month is not going to cause the local population of blue jays to go extint. <br /> <br /> In all honesty i think everyone who insists that cats are in more danger outside than inside forget the dangers of being IN a home at all times. Cats are sneekey, they get into cabnits, ive seen it. there are alot of different kinds of poins in a home, youve got bleach, amonia, pinesole. if you wash your floors with pinesal and you cat walks over the floor then licks its feet you could say you just unentenchnoly poisend your own cat.<br /> <br /> No matter where a pet goes theres a potenchel of danger. its inevitable. But my cats and my moms cats will always be indoor/outdoor cats and there is absolutly nothing wrong with that. there all fixed and microchiped.

04-3-2011 at 7:38 PM

<i>I know my cats probly try and get a few birds, I've seen Tony bring my mom a bird. But i do not think they are effecting the bird population so much that it will effect the local wildlife.</i><br /> <br /> <a href="http://library.fws.gov/bird_publications/songbrd.html#Cat">I'll repost this</a>...<br /> <br /> And <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/21/cute-but-deadly-cats-are-a-far-bigger-threat-to-u-s-birds-than-windmills/">another</a>, in case it's needed.

04-3-2011 at 6:12 PM

i have one in door out door cat and one that stays inside at all time simply because she dose not like it outside. I do give her the option if she wants to go out she may. I see no reson as to why i should coop my cats up inside when every nature in there beeing is telling them to go out.<br /> <br /> My mom has 2 in door out door cats. Tony she tends to stay out all summer and then refuses to go out in the winter, Squeezer (ask me how she got her name is to cute!) who goes outside daily. <br /> <br /> Also you have to take into considerashion that people have barn cats. would you tell the people that there cat for cheching mice in there barn can not keep there own animal in a pirticuler place on there property?<br /> <br /> I know my cats probly try and get a few birds, I've seen Tony bring my mom a bird. But i do not think they are effecting the bird population so much that it will effect the local wildlife.

04-3-2011 at 7:07 AM

Personally, simply from knowing the kind of dangers that are outside WHEREVER you live, I would never let my cat outside unsupervised. There's no such thing as a place where it's "safe" to let cats roam free outside. If there aren't roads and cars, there will be predators such as coyotes and birds of prey, even stray dogs or other cats with territorial temperaments. Not to mention the countless pesticides, toxins, and even natural plants that a cat could take a nibble on and be poisoned. "Pet-safe" antifreeze isn't any safer, it just has a bitter taste instead. <br /> <br /> My cat is the happiest cat you could ever meet. I've trained him to be able to walk on a leash and he will prowl around the yard (with me supervising) dragging the leash and having a great old time. He's also a skittish cat and is not easy to accustom to new things, but he was able to learn to accept the harness and now barely even notices it. <br /> <br /> I play games with him indoors to help keep him exercised, and he is the opposite of a fat, lazy housecat.. He's lean, trim, muscular, athletic, and he's constantly playing and chasing things or "hunting" his dinner (I like to simulate an actual chase + kill when I can, it's pretty great watching a cat run top speed after a raw drumstick tied to a bit of string). He has no desire at all to venture out of the yard and roam, because he's happy inside and here with me. I've left the door open while outside gardening, and kept an eye on him in the yard... He prowled a bit, got bored, and came back.<br /> <br /> It's not hard for an owner to help their indoor cats experience the kind of "joys" of being allowed outside, while keeping them safe and secure at the same time. It really is so easy if you actually try. In the course of a normal day, my cat has playful sparring matches with me (involving sheathed claw paw bats and finger taps and a bit of wrestling), stalks, chases, and "kills" his dinner, reminds the dogs that he's their superior, and takes long naps on my queen size bed. But of course, indoor cats don't live a full life ;)

03-16-2011 at 7:27 AM

& not to mention, Nathaniel... hawks can and do kill cats.

03-16-2011 at 3:50 AM

That makes sense Nathaniel, we have bells on our cats anyway. There would be no possible way to keep them inside, but they are so spoiled they usually stay in =P I understand that though.

03-15-2011 at 8:36 PM

<i> You can’t stop them from following their natural instinct to hunt; it would be like trying to take the hawk out of the environment because it eats too many small animals. </i><br /> <br /> No, because hawks are natural to the environment; cats are often not. There can be feline-like predators in an area, but no smaller ones...and so there is an open niche that cats come in and exploit. That's why they're so hard on local populations of indigenous animals.

03-15-2011 at 3:21 PM

I have 2 cats, both of which are strictly indoor cats. There's reasons for this..<br /> 1.) They started out strays and I don't want them to become strays again.<br /> 2.) Our other cat that we had before these 2 girls, ran away and never came back. It broke my heart because I was only in Kindergarden at the time. <br /> 3.) They might get hit by a car or attacked by another cat or a dog.<br /> But they still have chips incase anything happens to them :) One time one of them, got out but sh came back with in a few minutes, but you never know xD She ony came back because it was raining and she missed her sister :P <br /> They are also spayed :3

03-15-2011 at 7:45 AM

<br /> Well, I don’t live in Australia and if letting your cat go outdoors is a threat to your species of birds and such I would definitely keep my cat inside. However, it’s sort of like sheltering a kid… they are going to get out eventually and when an indoor cat gets out they don’t know what to do. In my view the indoor cats are the ones ending up lost someplace or ran over or something. We have three cats that go inside and outside as they please, and we haven’t had a single issue with them. Let it be known though, we live out in the country, no busy roads. I do strongly believe that if you have any cat (or dog) it is a responsibility to get it spayed or neutered, and especially if you let it go outside. We also have the cat collars with bells on them, so our cats can’t sneak up on anything. We have three dogs, it would be impossible to keep them inside the house, but they are all fixed and vaccinated. You can’t stop them from following their natural instinct to hunt; it would be like trying to take the hawk out of the environment because it eats too many small animals. At least, that’s what it’s like here =) I think there is allot of dynamics to this. <br />

03-12-2011 at 9:01 AM

I have 3 cats and the only time they are allowed outside is when they are in their run or i've got them on there harnesses. <br /> <br /> My neighbours on both sides just let their cats do whatever they want (i don't think the people on the left of me let there cat/s in at all..<br /> <br /> and i've seen them kill SO many birds, a possum, a small chicken, and a baby rabbit :( and they are just the things that have been left in my yard! <br /> <br /> My cats have been micro-chipped and had tags on since they were 6 weeks old and i won't ever regret getting it done. atleast if they do somehow get away i will get them back. <br /> <br /> I have seen so many dead cats on the roads and in the local bushland reserve lately :'( It is so sad to think that some of them had homes once, but even more sad to think that most of them probably didn't.. <br /> <br /> There is a beautiful ragdoll boy tat lives down the road from me who is always outside and he is so skinny :( Whenever he comes to say hello i am always so tempted to quickly bring him inside and add him to the family &lt;3 they probably wouldn't even notice :P

03-12-2011 at 7:35 AM

Snaptraps are 10X more efficient then cats when it comes to mice control. You can use zipties to secure traps to beams and areas cats cant get to.<br>I've seen the consequences of letting un-neutered cats roam, in the form of inbred kittens who die within the first month<br><br>EDIT: and no cat is "too big" to be used as target practice for some sick kids.

03-12-2011 at 2:50 AM

You may argue, but I believe what I believe. So... anyways... later..