(09-14-2012 at 9:37 PM)
This thread's purpose is to discuss the changes that have been made to Alacrity tonight. If you are unfamiliar with what's happened, please visit the current news post!
Here's a brief synopsis of what is acceptable for this thread:
• Talk about the age decrease for eligible trial dogs
• Talk about the revised trial payouts
• Talk about increased beauty show payouts
• Talk about increased Frisbee Challenge payouts
• Discussion about a points shop; where it belongs and what you'd like to see.
Of course, all of the same Alacrity rules apply here. If you have criticism, please pose it in a constructive and respectful manner. We LOVE feedback!
Join the discussion!
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(09-27-2012 at 6:22 PM)
What trial fees are dirt cheap?
People with low TP dogs aren't entering anymore because they lose way too much money. I don't enter a lot of my dogs anymore for this. "Dirt cheap" to some players, perhaps, but not to those who only have a little cash.
Gromit trials cost 5k+ for me to enter. Losing 20k to enter a dog 4 times just for them to lose? That adds up fast.
Even the 1k or so fees of some of the lower levels adds up fast if you're just losing all the time. Besides, the entry fees would still be high for higher tp dogs... I'm not sure if you read that or not. Which, would lower fees for players with lower TP dogs (which are most often the players that don't have much money).
If you're lost and alone, or you're sinking like a stone, carry on~ Carry on by Fun
(09-27-2012 at 6:08 PM)
The trial fees are dirt cheap lol :/
(09-27-2012 at 5:13 PM)
Well as for the top 5 players owning 42% of the economy, the way to fix this would be increasing payout on games (or something else). Which would cause growth.
If you put this into a real world situation, the answer would be to increase the pay of the "working class". (but the difference is they're producing something)
So for example if I hired 5 lower class workers to make me chocolate bars, and increased their pay, that would increase the cost of those chocolate bars so I pay more for them. But in the game we don't have people producing anything besides dogs maybe, and that is player controlled pricing (which i'm not saying to remove)
Maybe an answer would be to make a "junk yard" for dogs where the game buys dogs we breed for a set price based on TP.
(09-26-2012 at 6:56 PM)
Just making a note about bank interest. I see no issue with high bank interest (yes I am one of the people making a lot) BUT it took me two years to get there, and with how expensive items are on here, no, it's not -that- much really. I would agree to a cap of 1 mill even (and that would cut me off by a lot); it would give everyone the goal of 50 mill (each account) but wouldn't allow for totally ridiculous amounts. And honestly I'd prefer this so I don't feel the need to hoard forever, lol.
I don't support tiers, but I do support low trial entry fees (perhaps the lower TP, the lower the flat trial fee)
So, for example, a 0-500 TP dog would have a flat entry fee of 5$ for dogbert and go up by 5$ per level, while a capped dog+ would have a flat entry fee of 1k and go up by 100 flat every level. (this is an example, actual numbers could vary, though I think those are fair prices, really)
If you're lost and alone, or you're sinking like a stone, carry on~ Carry on by Fun
(09-26-2012 at 7:18 AM)
As I've said though, Marie, it's been suggested -more- than once the last time we had a thread about fixing trials (the tp tiers I mean). I still never really heard a good reason as to why this wouldn't work. I think maybe I'll dig around for any responses on it from the admins in the past because I don't remember why it seemed like it couldn't be implemented (or at least not yet) according to admins. It seems like a nice idea for those with low dogs and those with high. The payouts could be easier adjusted as well. The lower levels would have a low entry fee and low payout and that could only increase. I believe it gives better control over that than to try and fix payouts and entry on all types of TP dogs.
For the bank, the interest people are getting are over 1mil, not just 500k. This is a small percentage of people that control a -huge- portion of the cash. Thank you Evlon for the actual stats where only 5 people have 42% of cash. How many active players are on here? For there to only be 5 is so crazy. It almost seems like there is a steep drop off after these 5 as seen when Jack provided the stats on 20 and 25 people. I still think the interest rate should be calculated by how much cash you have like I’ve seen on many many many sites. People aren’t able to make a living off their interest like on here. The interest is just a nice reward, not game changing.
Here is the last thread on the TP sectioning idea: [thread]
Rereading some of the responses, I still don't see why this can't be put in. I feel there is some strange resistance to this and I don't quite understand what is behind it to be honest.
Here are some of the points that admins were making for those that don't want to read the entire thread. I'm only picking a few points from there. If you want to full read, click the link :)
Secondly, by sectioning trials by TP, you remove basically the entire point to breed and train higher TP dogs. If my 1k TP trial dog/team is going to win as much, or more, than my 9k TP dog, then I have no incentive to breed and train a 9k TP dog. This is counter intuitive to the TP system.
*Lower tp dogs would still not earn as much as the higher tp dogs. Entry fees and payouts would be adjusted for each level. For lower levels perhaps it’s a $10 entry fee with a max earning of $100. It's still a profit but it is lower than the other levels. Our newbies would be able to at least enjoy the fun of competing with dogs of their own kind. Secondly it would still be a competition for the lower tiers and that doesn't mean you would get more wins. I’m not sure why it was suggested that they would somehow win more for being a lower tp. There are a lot more low tp dogs than high tp dogs. It’s more competition around your own dog and there could be an increasing factor on speed and drive.
This applies to low TP dogs, too. Creating an unfair advantage for a dog with, say, 5999 TP over a dog with 6001 TP is absurd, in my opinion. If you want higher TP to play with higher TP dogs, breed up to it. That was the entire point of Alacrity's TP system.
*Exactly, if you want a higher tp dog than breed up to it! If someone is using a 5999 TP dog they can breed for higher if they want. Also we have TP raising items and you gain bonuses for trialing so that 5999 won’t remain that way for that long. I fail to see how this ‘unfairness’ is any worse than what it is now. There seems like there’s no competition at all. It is just high TP dogs steamrolling around. That makes trials not fun and takes away the dynamics.
All dogs in the low to mid-range of tiers are best retired than trained and will become worthless. Even if the entrants are hidden, if there is a dog that has 499.99 TP + Kitsune in a tier that caps at 500 TP, there is no real point to it.
*Again, the dog would be pushed out of that tier from TP bonuses. It won’t last in that area for long.
Calling honest competition unfair is silly to me. We have the current win-based tier system in place to help combat this, but the fact that there will be better dogs than yours is simply a fact of life. Not everyone can win. That's just the way that life works.
*We’re not asking to always win, we’re asking to actually create competition in the right way. Its not sporting to put a 8000+ with a 320tp dog. There are levels in all types of sports like major league and minor league. It’s because no one enjoys watching steam rollers and it’s an unfair disadvantage. This would just allow for people just starting and those with low dogs to be able to enjoy the trial system that ala has in place. Currently, I don’t believe they are truly enjoying it and the whole game is centered around it after all. Perhaps they won’t win all the time but at least it’s to dogs around their level and not some monsters. It’s a more fit and sporting environment. It also lets them make the money to improve on their dogs. I don’t see why letting low TP dogs really be able to compete would halt people wanting to get higher TP dogs. What is stopping them is the amount of high TP dogs already out there and how the very rich players can easily pop them out and train them up and push them past the breeding cap. I know I had gotten frustrated and decided not to train or breed dogs because of that.
Anyway, those are a few of the arguments and my thoughts on that. I just can’t quite see what is so bad about low dogs competing with other low dogs. It doesn’t create more wins for them necessarily. It lets them compete with dogs on their levels and the prices could be better adjusted with this system.
The trials being changed are obviously not working. We let the 2 dog entry go on for a while and I don’t see any changes other than users getting aggravated and there is still talk about the economy and the trials. I think the whole system just needs to be revamped. The entire game has changed once the caps had been reached. Money got stocked up and users became so rich that they probably didn’t know what to do with all their money. Now that the game as changed dramatically from the dogs, the trial systems need a huge rework. Before the cap was reached, people were on more even terms with trialing because you didn’t have monsters and the range of TPs were smaller and I don’t remember there being a problem.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be the tiers even though I’m in favor of it, but I would hope that they really get changed and have a ton of thought put into it. I don’t think these band aid fixes are going to work. I would hope that there would be some meeting and a group of you come together to really really think about a new system to put in place with perhaps new rankings, scorings, judgings, etc. It would show that the game and players are really cared about to where that effort would be put in and show the game will grow along with its user base.
These are solely my opinions and you may take them how you wish :) I just hope the ideas aren’t completely ignored or approached in a bias way. These problems have been around for a while and I really do think they can be fixed. I just hope we take steps in the right direction for everyone to enjoy the game.
*Got my computer back so I had a lot I wanted to say ^^; Sorry on length.
(09-25-2012 at 7:18 PM)
Trials, need to be re-made. I used to be able to trial my 400+ TP dogs, no problem, now I haven't even bothered with any besides my one 3k TP dog (which still has trouble placing). There only seems to be one suggestion going around that trials be divided by TP and I agree. On another sim game I play the competitions are divided by the horse's GP(which is like TP) and honestly it works great. I can trial every horse I own successfully.
I think the bank interest really does need to be revised as well. Maybe a limit to how much interest you can earn? Like a 10k cap (doesn't have to be 10k just an example). That way we still get our interest, but it's not some crazy 500k a week.
As far as money sinks go I think the cash boutique really covers that. And does a good job at it, maybe adding more items might help though.
(09-25-2012 at 7:18 PM)
Accidentally double posted.
(09-25-2012 at 7:16 AM)
So I will be forced to train up more monsters to be able to win. Then others will do the same. Eventually there will only be monsters and trialing will only be a matter of chance, no tactics involved at all.
Shroomie has a very valid point here :c
My general thoughts: Trials need reworked entirely for the sake of new players. Now you don't have to read below unless you want to xD
When most of us started, there weren't TP monsters and capped dogs going for a dime a dozen. Now there's so many, new players end up picking them up and once someone explains that maxing that dog is going to "take a while" they pretty much give up.
No one wants to trial because they can't win because the whole site is basically over run with TP monsters. Even if you did stalk trials all day and wait, there's still someone with a kennel full of monsters out there who hasn't trialed yet. And the two low TP dogs you entered are going to get pummeled.
Alacrity as a whole has gotten too hard. New players can't get anywhere. Now it's almost required to own a scholar collar, an energy companion and the trainer's perk to survive. Those same new players who end up finding a capped dog are the same ones who don't have all those things. The average TS click will only reward them 0.4 with out the collar and perk. Do you know how long it would take for them to max that dog (If they don't give up somewhere in between)? It would take 22,499.775 clicks for them to max that dog. Divide that by the 10 sessions they start out with and that's "only" 2,250 days. Unless they donate (because we all know they can't afford to pay 125k per bone) to get the collar and perk, they're going to give up. They either breed the dog or get bored and stop playing.
At this point, I think everything needs reworked.
Yes, breeding high TP dogs was the point of the game, but with mass-breeding of them and everyone saying "just buy a higher TP dog if you want to win" it's really screwing over the players that matter: Our newbies
They can't afford to get all these things and we need to put them into a little higher consideration; especially in trials.
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(09-24-2012 at 3:46 PM)
Idle that has been suggested numerous times to have some separation with tp tiers.
The las time it was proposed I remember an admin saying it was unfair for a dog at say 1001 tp to have to compete in a 1000-2500 ranking. I still don't quite ge how this is any worse than what is happening now. And besides there are tp boosting items. Someone can't stick to 12499 tp either to ensure wins because bonuses are awarded and eventually they will be bumped to the next rank.
I am still for the idea. I don't understand still why it's being avoided.
*typed using an iPod. Sorry if there's any autocorrect silliness.
(09-24-2012 at 2:44 PM)
Having started trialing another dog from scratch I'm back with more thoughts.
Yesterday(and it seems that way today too) in Odie trials it was basically the same 3-4 users competing with each other, occasionally someone else would enter a trial or two, but otherwise it was the same people.
One was me with my dog(around 1500tp), one was someone with two 300ish TP dogs, one had a range of dogs from low TP to high and one had a few capped dogs and 2k+ tp dogs they were spreading out over the trials. So every time I went to enter my dog, I would only want to enter if the person with the two 300ish dogs had already entered, that way I would always get at least 3rd. Good for me, but I can't imagine they were too thrilled about it(I did try to avoid doing it after a while and entered my low tp dog in a few as well, so he'd come last and they'd get at least 3rd).
A few thoughts:
1: It was basically the same three or four people all evening, less trial payouts=less people trialing. For 300TP person, it was impossible to avoid entering trials with us(and losing pretty much every time). I don't know how much it was costing them, but my entry fees were 100-250ish with a win of 1000ish with a 1.5k dog. Once they're at the 250ish entry fees, I can't see them profiting even if they do win.
2: Why are trials organised by # of wins, rather than the dog's TP? If there was at least some kind of TP restriction on trial levels, it would be a lot fairer for people with lower TP dogs. It's not that people are trying to be mean but when it's just you and your capped dogs vs someone with customs or foundies it's not really fair. And the low TP owner can only stop entering or wait for the wave of high TP dogs to pass. Could we even have it so higher TP dogs could skip the first few levels(say 2k+ and you start in Odie/Toto)? Either that or a score restriction so no matter the TP, a dog can't get more than X points in lower trials, a high TP dog would still have an advantage, but it would give the others a chance at least.
I dunno, particularly now that the trials seem emptier, it just seems really unbalanced. Given that foundies(imagining that these would be a newbie's first dog rather than a custom) have such low starting TP, I don't see the logic in all dogs being considered equal when entering a trial.
I'm not asking for anything like 100-200 having it's own category, but even if it were 0-2000, 2001-4000, 4001-6000, 6001-capped or something?
I realise that in the beginning it was probably mostly dogs around the same TP entering each trial, but now there's a bigger range of TPs, I think some changes need to be made to allow lower TP dogs to still be useful while not putting aside the high TP dogs people have worked hard to get.
Slightly related, but with trials being so quiet, is it possible to have some kind of script that would randomly select from a pool of NPC dogs and shove them in trials that haven't had an entry for a long period of time? idk, just a passing thought that one, I'm sure there are plenty of flaws in that idea.
Oh and regarding frisbee payments: They seem much lower now and I'm happy with the adjustments made to payouts :3
edit: haha, I rambled so much I forgot my other point! Why is 3rd place exactly as good as 1st? At the moment I'm not even slightly motivated to get 1sts with my dogs when 3rds are achievable and give the exact same payout.First place could be what trial payments were before, leave 3rd as it is now and make 2nd place somewhere in between? Might be a nice compromise between previous payouts and the recent changes as well?