08-19-2011 at 4:25 PM

I suggest that when the staff makes a thread allegedly attempting to sort out an issue in game, they actually listen to what the players have to say, instead of pointing fingers and assuming other motives. <br /> <br /> I'm flat out shocked it's come to this, and I regret wholeheartedly that I've had to go as far as to post this, but this is crazy.<br /> <br /> I assume we would have shared a similar exchange had I been able to post in debate, so I feel that this is okay for public posting.<br /> <br /> For context, this is a message exchange between Wysper and I over the thread posted in debate, you can view it here: <a href=http://www.alacritysim.com/forums.php?category=Debate&boardid=8777>An Open Discussion</a>.<br /> <br /> EDIT;; Read from the bottom up. :)<br><br> <center>------------------------------</center><br /> <br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9181:<br /> But I don't need special treatment because my birthday was months ago...?<br /> <br /> All I'm trying to do is answer the issue at hand. My complaint was the lack of communication between staff and players, as well as the attitude some staff were presenting.<br /> <br /> I would appreciate it if you could evaluate that issue, and not the one you're proposing I have.<br /> <br /> Thanks. That's all I'll be needing for now.<br /> <br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9:<br /> It surely sounds like you are protesting it Nitrous.<br /> <br /> I'm sorry you feel this way about it, but the rules are the rules.<br /> <br /> What Robyn said the day that forum opened, has changed. It has been many many months ago. Please follow the rules. You won't get special treatment, I'm sorry.<br /> <br /> <br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9181:<br /> I'm not protesting the rule - whatever it is - I just think it would be beneficial if players, mods, admins and all staff were on the same page.<br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9:<br /> <br /> <br /> That is where it says specifically that you can only enter the forum if you are 18+.<br /> <br /> The rules are clear cut and precise Nitrous. I have listed out everything that is expected, with the consequences if they are broken.<br /> <br /> <br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9181:<br /> Ah, yes. That would depend heavily on where I'm going with it though. My success could very heavily rely on my ability to bend the rules in some specialties! Or at least find the cracks in them. Like I said, setting precedent. ;)<br /> <br /> What you have to say about being sued is valid, however unlikely. If all COPPA standards are met (and I haven't looked that closely, I'm assuming they are) there isn't much else Rob should be held responsible for, and COPPA should only really apply to sites directly marketed to children under thirteen. The sites that get sued are typically huge corporations. Alacrity just isn't big enough to elicit that kind of attention.<br /> <br /> It seems to be the common consensus that Alacrity isn't a kid's game, it doesn't directly target children the way a Horseland or Horse Isle does, and until recently the player base reflected that.<br /> <br /> Wasn't there an incident in the 18+ forum months ago when authorities were alerted? I guess at this point, no one knows what happened. But did Ala end up on the chopping block for having minors in their 18+ forum? Not that I'm aware of.<br /> <br /> What about mommy and daddy suing because little Suzy saw a bad word? Unheard of. The kid is at risk every time they use Google, and few things get bigger and more innocuous than that.<br /> <br /> However, all this means is that I was told by one Admin that I was fine to go in there, and another staff member said I couldn't. So what's the actual rule? Who's in charge of making them, if not the owner of the site?<br /> <br /> Rules are rules, sure. But what exactly is the rule? It doesn't say anywhere specifically that you can only enter the forum if you're 18. 18+ seems more like a content rating.<br /> <br /> I just think there needs to be more clarity here. Actual, official set rules that all the mods and admins are clear on. When those rules are modified, we need to be informed. It can become quite frustrating, as you're likely aware of. :)<br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9:<br /> Unfortunately, 18+ means just that, aged 18 and older. If someone is not 18 then they should not be in that forum. Regardless of what Robyn says. The entire site can get sued, shut down, etc. if someone that "takes offense" to it finds out. Regardless if you have permission from Robyn or your parents to be there. Do you want to be the one that makes someone mad in that forum and has them press charges? As a minor, ANYONE can press charges for you, not just your parents. So, I understand that reasoning.<br /> <br /> And yes, perhaps the way that issue was closed could have been nicer, but she wasn't mean, or rude or anything. It was simply closed before you could respond further. What more could you have said though, I wonder? The issue was taken care of, the rule in question removed, the debate was allowed to stay.<br /> <br /> I will let the mods know to allow people chance to further say something in issues, but keep in mind they are kept track of as well. And we have told them many many times to remember to close the issues they claim, as they have been left open before and gotten a really long list.<br /> <br /> The rules are the rules Nitrous. Regardless if you think you have "the right" to do something, if you have been told not to, then you should follow that.<br /> <br /> Going into the legal profession, isn't that something you should learn? The rules are for everyone, they can't be bent just for you.<br /> <br /> :-)<br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9181:<br /> It's not so much the situation its self, but more the precedent it sets. As someone going into the legal profession, it's a keen eye I have to have. ;)<br /> <br /> I don't think anyone is out to get me over it, but like I said, what a situation like this presents.<br /> <br /> I've known of players being kicked from the 18+ form when they were seventeen, I was warned at seventeen.<br /> <br /> However, before I entered the thread, I got clearance from Rob. She said it was fine if you were under 18 to be in the forum, but not to go about advertising blatantly.<br /> <br /> I never thought to screen shot it, because Rob said it and I assumed that would be the end of that.<br /> <br /> It was never mentioned that I was seventeen at the time, but a mod found out and I was warned, though I was doing nothing wrong.<br /> <br /> There was a lack of communication there on the rules. Several people got in trouble over it unnecessarily. It breeds tension. You see where I'm going with this?<br /> <br /> It's also the attitude that it presents. Many mods and admins allow me to either thank them or continue to ask questions in an issue thread before closing it, it's a courtesy thing.<br /> <br /> I feel like I'm being silenced, almost like "Well wait, I wasn't done yet!" even if the mod didn't see a need to keep the issue open, maybe the player did, and keeping communication open is key.<br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9:<br /> On the Debate rule, yes, I made the change.<br /> <br /> If something is a Debate, it should be in the Debate Forum. Regardless of the content.<br /> <br /> Those rules were written up quite a while ago, and that specific one has never really been "enforced". You showing it, brought it to the attention of a Mod, and they asked me about it. I said that a Debate is a Debate, regardless, and edited the rule.<br /> <br /> With something so minor, and small, do you really think a full blown news post was needed? It was small, and really nothing to stop the site and hold the horses for, Nitrous.<br /> <br /> Kit didn't yell, simply thanked you for showing it, and that it was ruled as being fine. That should be the end of it. lol<br /> <br /> It wasn't out to "get" you, or anyone else at all.<br /> <br /> You are picking at something that is so minor as to really just be trivial.<br /> <br /> <br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9181:<br /> Okay. I'll see what I can do. Would it be possible for me to work as a mediator of sorts?<br /> <br /> But first, I have something that happened earlier today that kind of threw me for a loop.<br /> <br /> http://www.alacritysim.com/issuehub.php?id=5701<br /> <br /> This issue ties it back to everything else you'd need to look at.<br /> <br /> That rule on the Red vs Blue type debates was there. I know it was. The quote was copied and sent to the initial handler (Tiger), who had previously either not known of or denied its existence, along with an unnamed admin.<br /> <br /> After I located the rule, and linked her to Aad's post, she seemed to acknowledge it and said she would move the thread in question if she needed to. It was blatantly against the rule that was posted at the time. Her response seemed like she was attempting to shut me out. I had no chance to reply or question further.<br /> <br /> I waited almost a week, then brought up the issue again, as I linked above. Again, it was doubted whether or not this rule existed despite me posting/linking it. I then discovered it had been edited from your account.<br /> <br /> I don't think this is some conspiracy to prove Nitrous wrong, but it seems as though there's very little communication on the rules. And when you remove one, why wouldn't you inform someone like me and the community? It still comes up a lot with the 18+ forum.<br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9:<br /> The problem is, that those who have complaints, won't complain, or bring them forth. So nothing CAN be done.<br /> <br /> I am more than willing to fix the issue, but without people bringing me proof, solid evidence, I can't do anything, and it turns into a "he said, she said" type of thing.<br /> <br /> So, until these people bring things forward, it will continue as is.<br /> <br /> <br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9181:<br /> I understand.<br /> <br /> I feel like I would better if it were a total forum ban though. It rescinds out debate privileges, but it isn't really a debate, is it? Is there any option for General Discussion?<br /> <br /> I've already had a friend come to me who is uncomfortable with discussing the matter, or even sending in her complaints, to you directly. She doesn't want to bother, and I don't think that will get anyone anywhere, which is a shame because all anyone wants is to resolve this.<br /> <br /> She feels as though there's a personal issue, you know?<br /> <br /> I know you're capable of immunity to bias. That can't change her perception though.<br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9:<br /> Nitrous,<br /> <br /> I'm sorry, but no. Please message me what you wish to say.<br /> <br /> This is because the people who have been banned from the Forum were done so for a reason, and due to inflamed attitudes and comments. This will keep things more level.<br /> <br /> <br /> --------------------<br /> Player #9181:<br /> Hey Wysp.<br /> <br /> Just wanted to throw my two cents in for this thing. I know you wanted those of us who were banned to message you, but is there any way you could provide amnesty for this one thread? It's kind of important, and since there are several of us, it might aid in keeping things organized and providing support for others.

08-19-2011 at 3:18 AM

haha Ly, slap happy, whats that mean?

08-19-2011 at 3:16 AM

Right...sorry. Sure.<br /> <br /> But yeah, like Nitrous said, let's try and get back on topic. I'd offer some suggfestions, but I'm slaphappy and they'd probably be horrible right now.>.>

08-19-2011 at 3:07 AM

The original post is a valid suggestion.<br /> <br /> You guys are turning it into a debate.<br /> <br /> And I'm sorry if you cannot post there, but if this turns more into a debate the thread will be moved. <br /> <br />

08-19-2011 at 3:06 AM

A long time ago, Kom, but yes. <br /> <br /> Shall we get back on topic. Perhaps suggestions on how this can be alleviated for those present and those who can't participate elsewhere? :)

08-19-2011 at 3:05 AM

Yeah, I kind of can't post there either.>.> And I find this a valid suggestion.

08-19-2011 at 3:02 AM

awwee Nitrous, did you get banned from there?

08-19-2011 at 3:01 AM

This seems to be turning more into a Debate than a Suggestion guys. <br /> <br /> <br />

08-19-2011 at 2:59 AM

I understand. Some of us can't post there, however.

08-19-2011 at 2:52 AM

I wasn't saying one was posted before another, to move to that one, or anything like that. I was just showing that it existed.

08-19-2011 at 2:33 AM

lolz I didn't see that one, although I did message an admin about a mod problem and never got a reply

08-19-2011 at 2:33 AM

This thread was posted first, Quagga. :P

08-19-2011 at 2:32 AM

I don't have a problem w/ any of the admins/mods, I just have problems with some of the behaviour I witness.

08-19-2011 at 2:28 AM

By the way - and not meaning to mini-mod, I'm simply stating - I spy a similar thread... <a href="http://www.alacritysim.com/forums.php?boardid=8777&category=Debate">here</a>...

08-19-2011 at 2:21 AM

I will not name anybody, but it sounds like a few of us here are having issues with the same person

08-19-2011 at 2:20 AM

sorry Quagga, didn't think about copying it, I was just scared at the time. I didn't want to get chat banned.

08-19-2011 at 2:20 AM

Gamzee, it isn't easy to make me cry. At all. Usually I only cry when my anxiety gets really bad. I've been bullied my entire life and things people say don't usually make me cry. So the fact that an admin said something that made me cry is pretty bad.

08-19-2011 at 2:19 AM

It would be better if you had what was actually said in chat. I feel like I'm missing an important part of the story otherwise, and that it would be unfair to form any opinion on the "GO TO ISSUE HUB" issue without anymore information on what was said. I was on Alacrity at the time, but I only noticed one message of someone commenting on the price changes - and even then I can't fully recall their exact stance on it - and then Wysper's message. I missed a lot of what was said before, then, assumably, and quite possibly a vital part to it.<br /> <br /> Edit:<br /> Gamzee, the "Issue Hub" WAS named, however there was something else tacked on to it.

08-19-2011 at 2:19 AM

I don't understand why people would be sent to the Issue Hub for voicing their opinions on the new changes... the Issue Hub is for bugs, help about something in-game [ex. "what does a Griffin do?"] and rule-breaking..

08-19-2011 at 2:11 AM

everyone started voicing their opinion on this matter and Wysper came in and bolded out this big long message about GO TO ISSUE HUB and that we were site bashing. yadayadayada