07-12-2011 at 3:42 AM

<em>"kira, don't forget little dogs have longer life spans then bigger dogs."</em><br /> I think lifespans may be more based on the breed itself.. But I could be wrong. Either way, I just don't like the idea of breeding dogs that don't meet up with breed standards.

07-11-2011 at 11:23 PM

Kaηdєє - Yes, I agree with you there. Teacup dogs are different than miniatures. I do not agree with the teacup dogs - small dogs being made smaller, but I'm okay with big dogs being made into minis as long as the health checks are done and the conformation is still there. :)<br /> <br /> The breeder that I got my puppy from breeds standards and minis, plus some toy Aussies. She does all their health checks and has NEVER had ANY health problems in her breeding program. Her puppies have titled in everything except Herding (one of her pups is being trained in it now) and the dogs still have their original wonderful conformation - just in a smaller size. THIS is the kind of "mini" breeding that I agree with.

07-11-2011 at 5:00 PM

@ Purrs_Port, I agree 100% with you there<br /> <br /> @LiveForHim, my main problem is the majority of the so called "tea cups" are not large dogs. They are small dogs, like chihuhua's or pomeranians. Breeds that really shouldn't be smaller. And if you google it, look at the prices. They usually run $1000+ . The parents have zero health tests having been done, and have no titles to prove any claims of the dog excelling at anything. If the breeder is responsible in it, is breeding for a smaller sized large dog, gets the dog titled, has the dogs health tested before breeding, and knows what he/she is doing then I see no problem. What I have the issue with is taking the smallest chi you can find and breeding it with another small chi, neither being tested titled or anything, and then charging $1000+ for a dog that has tons of hidden health issues that they created simply because the dog is small and they can charge that much.

07-11-2011 at 2:34 PM

I do not disagree with minis, although the teacup dogs annoy me. A yorkie or chihuahua doesn't need to be any smaller than they are. But some people want the brains of an aussie without the size. Many people cannot afford a big dog. My new puppy, and aussie, is MASCA registerable (Miniature Australian Shepherd Club of America), but his mom was a UKC champion.<br /> <br /> I believe that as long as we are not forfeiting the conformation and the health of true aussies, it would be profitable to offer aussies in all sizes. "Look at this big dog! It can do ALL these things! Look at this little dog! It can do ALL these things, too!"<br /> <br /> The whole thing that started the problems with the mini aussies is that they have beat quote quote "real" aussies, even though the minis can be traced back and are purebred, real aussies, too. If you're big aussie gets beat by a mini aussie, don't call the mini aussie a mutt - get your own. Also, mini aussies aren't selling for more than big aussies, at least not in our area. My puppy, son of champions, was only $650. "Real" aussies with that kind of lineage can sell for much more.<br /> <br /> AKC itself says "Quality is not to be sacrificed in favor of size." If the quality is there, and the health, size does not matter.<br /> <br /> That's my opinion.<br /> <br /> EDIT - Celestial88 said "I don't support breeding out of standard either, unless it is genuinely beneficial for the animal in their line of "work" whatever that may be."<br /> <br /> Aussies were bred originally for herding livestock. Getting them smaller isn't helping with that. But that was then... NOW aussies are being used for companions, agility, rally, and obedience. Any size dog can do the three last ones. But for being a companion, a big, high energy dog will get bored without something to do. Just being a pet is not the thing for big aussies who need a job. That's when the minis come in handy.<br /> <br /> What I think we should do, is work together. Let the big dog people breed their big dogs. If their dogs get beat by the little dogs, work a little harder. Train a little more. Make your dog the best it can be instead of just trying to make the competition bad so you can scape by with the bare minimum. The little dog people can breed their little dogs, keeping in mind to watch out for health and conformation in order to retain the quality of the big dogs.<br /> <br /> Then, when someone decides that they love Aussies, and can't have a dog indoors, they can get a standard aussie. If they can't afford a big dog, they can get a miniature aussie. Everyone's happy, and the quality and health has not failed.

07-10-2011 at 7:39 AM

I don't support breeding dogs just for size, weather it be for larger or smaller than the normal size of the breed. I think dogs should be bred for quality, healthy dogs. Not just for size.

07-10-2011 at 6:27 AM

Forgot to mention, I don't support breeding out of standard either, unless it is genuinely beneficial for the animal in their line of "work" whatever that may be.<br />

07-10-2011 at 5:35 AM

Teacup breeding is in my opinion breeding runt to runt, I know from friend whom has chihuahuas when young they are much more likely to have hypoglycemia to the extent of having it severely enough to die from it. I love all breeds and sizes but breeding dogs down to "teacup" is as bad genetically as breeding for giants in large breeds with subsequent known genetic issues of questionable joints, tendency to bloat etc. Smaller dogs are also prone to injury and deaths from accidents within the home, even trying to jump on or off chairsnand furniture. My opinion

07-10-2011 at 4:46 AM

From my experience, lifespan of the dog relies primarily on the breeding behind it, not necessarily size.<br /> <br /> A lot of larger breeds, such as Mastiff-type dogs who were bred to have overly exaggerated bodies won't live as long because they're hard on themselves.<br /> <br /> Yet I've seen mastiffs from working lines live well past 13. Then again, there was a lot of good breeding and health testing in the lines behind those dogs.

07-10-2011 at 3:48 AM

kira, don't forget little dogs have longer life spans then bigger dogs.

07-10-2011 at 3:44 AM

i think every dog is cute and i personally like how chihuahuas look like rats ( i &lt;3 rats ) but however i just prefer Larger dogs compared to toy dogs. i just cant see toy breeds as Dogs, because i can't roughhouse with them like i can do with my pit bull or something. and as for mineratures, i understand that they are Brilliant but i still like giant dogs better. it's just how i was raised. i find giant dogs like mastiffs great danes rotties st brenards Irresistable. (the fluffyness, the slobber, the wrinkles!) i just makes me think of a gentle giant. i like how tolerant they are. so yes i understand that toy breeds make great cuddle buddies since they're lapdogs, and 'minies or medium sized' are very brilliant, but in the end, my heart belongs to the Gentle Giant.

07-9-2011 at 6:45 PM

I don't like them. Breeding for extremely small dogs seems ridiculous. If you wanted a small dog, get a Chihuahua... And why is it really so important to have smaller dogs? I'm sure there's a whole mess of health issues just waiting to pop up if "teacup" dogs aren't bred with professional caution.

07-9-2011 at 11:44 AM

Just thought I'd mention the fact that "teacup" dogs DO NOT EXIST. It's just a term used by people who want their dogs to be more desirable, which I think is sick and wrong. "Teacup" dogs are usually just individuals which are smaller than a normal specimen of that breed would be.

05-1-2011 at 1:20 PM

As much as i dislike all the breeding for smaller and smaller dogs, the practice makes my boss lots of money fixing the problems associated with these dogs, such as luxateing patellas and the many other problems associated with the over breeding of these tiny animals...

05-1-2011 at 12:32 PM

If the breeder is breeding with the dog's health and both physical and mental stability in mind, and performing appropriate health tests, then I see no problem with it. After all, all our currently existing breeds came from selectively breeding or combining other breeds. I don't see anyone protesting miniature dachshunds or miniature schnauzers, because they've been established for a long time. They were created the same way.<br /> <br /> However, my issue comes with people breeding for size alone and ignoring the most fundamental role as a breeder- to create dogs that are <i>healthy</i> in both body and mind and are therefore fit to perform their role as, in this case, a companion. <br /> <br /> A companion dog should not be bred solely for looks. It as much as any other dog, serves a role. A dog that has shaky and completely unreliable nerves and reacts fearfully and/or aggressively to other dogs, people, or new situations in general, is not a good companion dog. A dog that develops structural deformities and has to undergo expensive veterinary care at the age of five just so it can have a normal life is not a well bred companion dog.<br /> <br /> I see this all too often in the small breeds. My mother owns three dogs like this. The oldest one is completely falling apart with arthritis, heart problems, and allergies.. all things that can be genetic, and all things that if the breeder had selected for strong joints and bone structure, healthy hearts (there is an OFA test for this), and bred for strong immune systems, would not be problems costing my mother thousands of dollars now. The younger two, while physically sound, have horrendously shaky nerves. The middle one is extremely fear aggressive towards other dogs, and even I as a behavior modification specialist who has been working with her for years has only managed to minimize her problems. The youngest one, who has become my current project, is much worse. I've been working with him since he was a puppy, socialized within an inch of his life, and he is still an extremely reactive-aggressive dog. His nerves are such that any new situation that he has not been carefully acclimated to with extensive behavior modification will cause him to go into deference and can lead to aggression. He is extremely reactive towards other dogs and he often has a "fear episode" right in the middle of a spell of doing extremely well and having no problems. Because of his nerves, he will simply just snap sometimes. Her dogs are only two of the hundreds of examples I've seen. I have met and been bitten by ten times more fear-aggressive small dogs than ALL of the big dogs I've worked with for any aggression problem. Does this mean all small dogs have terrible nerves? Absolutely not! But there is a definite trend towards breeding small dogs without any regard towards health or temperament, because small dogs are popular and make money. <br /> <br /> Personally, I wouldn't wish a dog with nerves like my mother's dogs on anybody.<br /> <br /> Long story short.. If a breeder manages to breed dogs that are tiny like teacup dogs are, and can still breed them for optimum health, temperament, and overall soundless, then more power to them.<br /> <br /> But a dog with structural problems like joint issues, arthritis, and dysplasia, a dog with a nervous and shaky temperament that is fearful by nature and can lash out with aggression despite any amount of socialization.. is not living up to its role as a successful companion dog, which it was bred to do, and is not a very difficult task to achieve. And I <b>abhor</b> any breeder who knowingly produces dogs such as these. Of any size, shape, or color.

05-1-2011 at 5:39 AM

This has been covered I'm sure. As long as the results of breeding for a smaller dog doesn't create incredibly fragile and health-problem plagued dogs, I'm okay with it.<br /> <br /> <img src=http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz95/mcjarubas/teacup%20chihuahua/teacup-chihuahua.jpg> <br /> <br /> And I wish I had a Chihuahua to ride in a cup in my car. 3:

04-30-2011 at 8:59 PM

Serpent, if you can't see a small dog as anything other than an accessory, maybe the real problem lies with your perception.<br /> <br /> The problem is not the dogs. It's people who look at them as accessories. A mini or toy dog can still fulfill the role of companion and even therapist, just as my mini Aussie does. It all comes down to people, so you -should- be saying that you dislike the owners of small dogs who only use them as accessories.<br /> <br /> There's no justified reason to be prejudiced against small dogs just because they're small. It's like saying you don't like small people for the same reason. What I don't like is people who try to treat small people like they're inept children.<br /> <br /> Just like I don't agree with people who try to treat mini or toy dogs different just because of their size, as compared to how one would interact with a large dog.

04-30-2011 at 8:54 PM

Kael. Thank you. There are a plethora of people on Alacrity who seem to forget that "companion dog" is actually a function.<br /> <br /> Also, the mini Aussie, Moth, is absolutely not an accessory. He's used as a companion and <i>therapy dog</i>. Please don't make blanket statements and generalizations, Serpent.<br /> <br /> This is Moth, Carni's mini Australian Shepherd. He's never dressed in anything ridiculous, carried in a bag, or any hallmark of an accessory dog. He just happens to be small.<br /> <br /> <a target='_blank' href='http://img94.imageshack.us/i/mothg.jpg/'><img src='http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6688/mothg.th.jpg' border='0'/></a><br /> <br /> Click for a bigger version.

04-30-2011 at 2:23 PM

I don't like them. I honestly hate the whole idea of Dogs as accessories.<br /> Thats what they are, their like, living breathing accessories. not even dogs anymore. XP

04-30-2011 at 12:57 PM

<i> Hate em. Only reason a dog should be that small is if it's job is to go and get rats out of a barn or somethin</i><br /> <br /> Y'know, there are such breeds whose sole job is to be a companion. Not every dog needs to have some working mission. The reality is that most dogs will never have a job other than to love a family. Small dogs are just as capable of fulfilling this role as any other. <br /> <br /> To answer the original question, I don't see an issue with breeding for smaller versions of the original breed. I would rather they not be marketed as AKC (even if they may be simply because it's really only a breed registry) because they do not meet the breed standards. Selective breeding to enhance one trait over another is a human practice that dates back thousands of years. As long as the breeding is done carefully and ethically with things such as overall health and temperament in mind, I see no problem with this.

04-30-2011 at 4:35 AM

I agree with all that has been said :3<br /> <br /> If it is, like Mini Aussies, I have no issue IF the dog is bred correctly. Bad choice of words there, but what Im trying to say is "Mini" Breeds are ok as long as the pet can still perform their original function. Like Rat Terriers shouldn't be bred to the point of being the size of a Chihuahua and have loads of health issues and be like the French Bulldogs and not even be able to have pups without c-sections and artificial insemination.<br /> <br /> Not saying I completely agree with the idea of making them smaller, but I find it easier to say its OK when they breed them professionally...not like a BYB, breeding to make them small and not focusing on health or anything else.<br /> <br />