07-1-2011 at 1:50 AM

I'm talking about milking and feeding stalls where the cattle aren't allowed to leave. Milking cows does not bother me; dairy cows rarely feeling grass beneath their feet and dying about 15 years early from exhaustion and malnutrition does.<br /> <br /> <i>Bear baiting and rooster fighting is illegal in most places, which I think attests to how most people feel about those "sports" (I can't even call them that, myself. :/)</i><br /> They're illegal here in the US, but many countries still allow these practices to continue without any sort of intervention from the government. Not to mention the fact that I've been in multiple debates with about 3 different people over the past week about how - of all things - dog matching "isn't that bad." Just because laws are in place to prevent something doesn't mean it's as reviled by the majority of people as it should be.<br /> <br /> As for the meat being important: not for many people, it isn't. I know many perfectly healthy vegans and vegetarians (myself among the former save for eggs occasionally), so that's obviously false.<br /> Individuals have different needs and different bodily chemistry...so some people may indeed require a bit of meat in their diets to keep from having various physical issues, illnesses, etc. Personally, I don't know how much of that is truth and how much of it is simply a lack of supply of proper grains, veggies, etc. (not placing blame on those doing the eating; many old grains and things have been all but driven to extinction in our current grocery stores because of profits for big agriculture).<br /> <br /> Besides, meat being a necessity to some does not change the fact that the vast majority of the <i>billions</i> of food animals killed a year in this country alone are treated horrifically. This is not a debate about whether or not people should eat meat; this is a debate about <i>how</i> that meat is acquired. I don't want everyone to become vegan; that's unrealistic. I just want people to think about where their food comes from.

07-1-2011 at 1:44 AM

dogs should never be in dangerous sports like dog fighting just because they're considered property. that owner is getting in the way of that dog's pursuit of happiness, or life and it does matter because that dog can feel pain. when someone Hurts something that can Feel Pain and Knows it's doing so, that's abuse. no matter how you spin it, a bully is Hurting something that Feels Pain. i believe anything that can feel pain is More than 'property'.

07-1-2011 at 1:40 AM

well rooster i agree with you on some points. i don't think the owners really expect the dogs to understand english but they do it anyway out of frustration and they're just ignorant owners. i've seen mothers trying to talk to infants asking them what they wanted. im sure she didn't expect the child to be like "a bottle" but she did it anyway out of stress. dogs understand when we're fighting and angry and happy and for me that's enough.

07-1-2011 at 1:13 AM

In response to the feeding and milking stalls - there have been studies proving that cattle actually do enjoy going to these things, and often walk into them of their own will, rather than being forced. Many even walk into them when it's not a scheduled time to do so (especially milking stalls). Milking not done regularly causes harm to the cow. She won't stop producing milk just because nothing is taking it out - she'll continue to do so. Therefore, even cattle who don't wish to come in for milking should be made to do so, for their health.<br /> <br /> Bear baiting and rooster fighting is illegal in most places, which I think attests to how most people feel about those "sports" (I can't even call them that, myself. :/)<br /> <br /> As for humans not being meant to eat meat - no, in a broad sense we aren't meant to eat meat as a main part of our diet, and we aren't made to do so. But it does still stand that we are omnivores, and we do better if we have meat as a part of our diet, as opposed to going completely vegan or vegetarian.<br /> Myself in particular, I have to eat red meat at least once a week. There is something in it that my body does not make on it's own. I learned this by converting to a vegetarian diet (not even vegan!) and taking the proper supplements as directed by a dietitian, and I ended up getting my stomach pumped because my body had just stopped processing anything I was eating. So it sat in my stomach and fermented and it was just an overall horrible experience. Despite doing everything right, in theory, my body did not accept this in practice. It apparently had mostly to do with greenery in my diet. And I LOVE salads. Absolutely love. :/<br /> A friend of mine has pretty much the exact opposite problem, however. She can not eat red meat or poultry, and it makes her whole body just turn on her. She can eat limited amounts of fish, but even then, her body doesn't fully accept it. She has to take tons of supplements, and make sure she doesn't even get meat broth, fat or grease in anything she eats.<br /> <br /> So yeah. tl;dr of it is: Everyone's different, but generally, I agree that we shouldn't be focusing the main part of our diets on meat.

06-30-2011 at 10:39 PM

As I specified: I'm not talking about anthropomorphizing dogs; that annoys the bejesus out of me, too.<br /> I'm talking about affording basic rights to avoid harm and abuse for things deemed "sports" by humans. This can include such things as bear-baiting and rooster fighting.<br /> <br /> And it's not meat-eating I object to. I'm talking about the treatment those animals go through before being slaughtered as well as the slaughter itself. Factory farms, feeding and milking stalls, etc.<br /> Although I don't think humans were meant to eat nearly as much meat as we do, nor the kinds we do. Red meat has all kinds of detrimental health effects if eaten in any serious amount...and one of the diets most nutritionists consider the healthiest in many cases is basically vegan with the addition of some fish.<br /> Humans, evolutionarily, would have likely eaten meat very rarely other than fish and some poultry.<br /> We are slow, have no natural weapons, and are awesome prey animals ourselves. We likely ate a lot of greenery, fruits, veggies, with the occasional bird and fish supplement. I <i>can</i> see us eating a lot of eggs, too.<br /> Even our teeth and digestive system (particularly the bowels) don't lend themselves all that well to a high-meat diet, and it's a necessity that we cook most meat or die...what other natural carnivore - or partial carnivore - has that problem?<br /> <br /> Most people that say "humans are omnivores" forget that most omnivores don't eat a 50/50 diet of meat and other. Bears probably eat far more meat than, say, opossums, but both are omnivorous. It's a mixture, and the balance is very important, and most people eat far too much meat to be really healthy.

06-30-2011 at 12:32 PM

I'm with Larth. I think the problem isn't that people sympathize more with children than animals (they do, understandably - we're of the same species as children [for the most part], whereas dogs are a different species), it's that people start to treat their dogs like children, and this is kind of gross. It's one thing to have a bond with your pet(s), but it's something entirely different to expect your dog to understand what you're saying. It won't. It kills me when people come into the shelter to walk dogs, start to walk, and then <i>yell</i> at the dog when it pulls. "Stop! Hey! Stop pulling! Come on, don't pull. Leave it. Leeeaaave iiiit! Stop doing that!" It's like, the dog has no idea what you're asking it to do. It only knows that the person on the other end of the leash is acting bizarre and it must get away as quickly as possible. Drives me nuts.<br /> <br /> As for eating meat, humans are omnivores by nature. Omnivores in nature eat veggies and meat. Therefore, I don't see the problem with humans eating meat. The whole meat industry <i>should</i> be more humane, and I do what I can to eat meat that comes from good farms, was free-range or grass fed. I love cows and chickens - they're adorable and smarter than people think. But that doesn't stop me from wanting a burger or rotisserie chicken every now and again.

06-29-2011 at 7:30 PM

I find mostly that people bring up the "dogs=/=children" point when people start anthropomorphizing their dogs - "Look at that, Fluffy is smiling, he's so happy to see you!" or "Aww, that poor dog is crying because it's not getting the food it wants" etc.<br /> <br /> Though in a broader sense, I can see it being a matter of people empathizing more with human children than with animals - there are still many, many people out there who consider animals either soul-less/emotionless or simply put, property. Hell, there are even tons of people who hate all animals - even dogs and cats (going so far as to kill every animal that gets on their property because they legally can). But they don't have any problem with human children, and support their protection.

06-29-2011 at 4:43 AM

animals have rights because they have emotions and can feel. They wag their tail for happiness and tuck it under their legs for shame and can be sad and cranky and amgry and happy so they dont deserve to b treated like just objects you know? so the thing they have in common is theyre like our babies and they look to up to us but I say it really matters the fact that they have Feelings, and it is my beleif that is proof they have a soul.