08-2-2011 at 8:28 AM

Well, I think it's silly to make a rule that basically lets people post art that they expect a reaction to and makes those of us viewing it either praise it and give no constructive criticism or mention anything about it other than it looking awesome...or say nothing at all. I don't consider you a dictator for this rule, mind you, but I don't think it's one that will make many people happy. And that may not be your current objective; that's your prerogative. I'm just trying to explain a little why it rubbed us the wrong way.<br /> <br /> Add to that the fact that, as I mentioned before, if a site artist posts art that's for the site and doesn't ask for critique, how are we supposed to (politely) point out things that we think could be improved? I'm not saying that harassment or ugly comments should be allowed and overlooked, but at the same time, the userbase shouldn't have to ask permission to tell the moderators what they think of site art simply because it's something other than "that's great!"<br /> <br /> On the same token, there have been numerous suggestions of "why can't people just say <i>no crits please</i> if they don't want constructive criticism on their art?" That seems a little less...restrictive is the only word I can think of right now, even if it doesn't really fit.

08-2-2011 at 8:14 AM

I definitely take things personally when I work so hard to please all and yet a rule I make for what I think to be the best results in my personal self being basically called a dictator because I implemented a rule without consulting the players or remainder of the staff team.<br /> <br /> And you haven't answered my question yet on why you can't simply ask for critique? At this point until that question has a good answer I don't at all see not overturning the rule as stubbornness, I see it as pointless.

08-2-2011 at 8:06 AM

Robyn, I don't think most people here were attacking you, and honestly...that seems like you might be taking this a little too personally. Mostly, what I think people were upset about is the fact that it basically means if something looks a little off with site art previews, we cannot make suggestions for fixing things unless the artist(s) involved specifically ask for them. It's not like we want the ability to spew hatred all over the art; that should be something that we <i>can't</i> do. But constructive criticism and suggestions are entirely banned by that rule unless specifically requested. That just seems a little harsh, no matter the potential punishment.<br><br>Also, yes. You can just say "my site, my rules," but if there's this much negative reaction, I'm not sure that wouldn't be anything more than stubbornness.

08-2-2011 at 7:24 AM

Out of curiosity, if you disagree with the rule, what's wrong with simply asking for critique?<br /> <br /> A rule about not critiquing art unless asked for will bring an entire (solid) sim to it's knees? O_o<br /> <br /> Only Carni was consulted as this rule was a decision I made. I didn't ask other artists, why would only you and Ny need to be consulted?<br /> <br /> As pointed out by a few people, this applies to site artists AND member artists. Kind of sad to see some of you so crudely suggesting the artists who have provided so much for us can't handle any critiquing and are cry-babies over it. (basically the jist I"m getting from quite a few posts here)<br /> <br /> Also, do you all really think so badly of our moderating team that if somebody says "what do you think?" and if they cried "well I wasn't asking for a critique!" that a mod will just slap you with a perma-ban right there? Taking things way out of proportion. We give plenty of warnings on anything and everything and half the time if you can justify something we'll STILL work with you guys. <br /> <br /> Last thing to say is I kind of now feel like all of my trying to please the entire community, do what you guys want me to, change things how you want them changed, has just been a big slap in the face. A rule I felt needed passing regardless of consultation with staff or members is not within the realm of owning a site? Besides of the obvious misinformation (I had heard nothing of any newbie or any suggestions at the time, unless we're talking about BridgetteandJosh, which was posted on the suggestions board for all to see, and what does whether they stayed or left have anything to do with the validity of a suggestion?), in addition to me consulting the admins and head artist (all I felt need to consult) I am not allowed to do? I rarely play the "this is my site I will do what I want" card because it's an unfair one and ridiculous at that, but the one time I do it nobody bothers to see my good intentions in the matter and I simply get attacked? I'm going to go out on a limb and say THAT'S not fair.

08-2-2011 at 6:42 AM

I think Seyra's suggestion is the correct road to take. This new rule is ridiculous and I really do think it's going to make Ala go downhill. Fast. <br /> <br /> So yes, I completely support the opposition!

08-2-2011 at 5:47 AM

Maybe a distinction needs to be made. Criticism is fine, but don't attack the art or artist and don't say vague things like "I hate it", because that is not critique and provides no useful feedback to the artist.<br /> <br /> So yeah, I think critique should be allowed. Also, I do agree that the artists can and probably should have the option to not be critiqued, if they really don't want it.

08-2-2011 at 3:51 AM

Support! I was confused by this rule. >_>

08-2-2011 at 3:28 AM

Everything I was going to say has already been said, so...I support the opposition of this new rule entirely.

08-2-2011 at 3:03 AM

I support. As most everyone else said - what I wanted to say has already been stated. The rule is ridiculous.

08-2-2011 at 2:27 AM

I support the opposition of this new rule. What gets me is this rule was passed without consulting anyone-the player base, the staff, no one. It was all based on the suggestion of one newbie that's since left the site, to my knowledge.<br /> <br /> Making a blanket rule like this is just...not okay. It's wrong. And like it or not, when you put your art out there to be visible for all to see, you're gonna get comments and possibly even critique, even if it's unasked for. <br /> <br /> However...I've never really seen rude, hurtful statements leveled at posted art on here. For the most part, I've seen polite, well thought out criticism. Criticism that says "This sucks!" is not okay, and should not be allowed. However, constructive, helpful criticism of art-in any medium-should be allowed.<br /> <br /> I actually have a possible suggestion. Maybe there can be a special board where people specifically ask to have their art critiqued, or perhaps even just a thread for art critiqued. Just a thought.

08-2-2011 at 2:15 AM

Eirann, nicely said, everyone. Thanks for your thoughts.<br /> <br /> <br /> I do want to say this: I think if you DONT want critique, you SHOULD SAY IT THEN.<br /> <br /> It shouldn't be a "default" state. As in <b>majority</b> we WANT critique. One or two persons who support this rule are in minority...<br /> <br /> I respect that not everyone wants to hear criticism n. I usually give it to people I know that can handle it or I know they want it or they asked for it. It's supported by years of art education and knowledge, I just don't say "GOD THIS IS UGLY". Whoever says that it's just harassment, not critique. <br /> <br /> >:C<br /> <br /> <br /> Evlon, I will read your post when it's not 4 am, it's batguano long. XD

08-2-2011 at 12:48 AM

I support the opposition, everything I wanted to say has been said. <br />

08-2-2011 at 12:27 AM

I support the opposition. <br /> <br /> I'm both an artist and 13, I don't post my work often but when I do I expect critiques, I shouldn't <i>have</i> to post about it.

08-2-2011 at 12:27 AM

I fully support the opposition!<br /> <br /> I won't make a long post why since all the other posts have pretty much covered it.

08-2-2011 at 12:02 AM

This feels like a rebellion... XD<br /> <br /> Simply put: I support the opposition. <br /> <br /> Mini rant:<br /> It bothers me how easily offended people are. If you're -that- offended, then personally, you shouldn't even be on the internet; the world is unkind, and the internet is far from being any kinder. Understandably, people are different, and different things will be offensive to different people. However, there is no need to overreact; reply calmly, and if they continue, then leave or report them. Simple. If you're irritable lately, for whatever reason, then maybe you shouldn't be on in the first place.<br /> <br /> Personally, it's ridiculous when it's to the point where people become too afraid to say anything because of the chance that someone is going to overreact and cry wolf - in the sense that they're making the issue much more worse than it actually is. You make one little comment that had no bad intentions, and someone calls you racist, or sexist, and they all begin to bash you and ignore your original message - an added plus for them is that, since you're "racist," they can ignore your obviously correct message; that somehow it makes your point invalid. Like how you don't sit "Indian style," it's now called "pretzel-legged," and if you were to dare call it "Indian style," then you'd be racist.<br /> <br /> This is my issue. Slowly but surely, I'm getting paranoid again; I feel like I can't freely speak my mind without someone getting offended or misunderstanding me, reporting me, and me getting in trouble because -they- have no self control, or don't pause to think about what I said; because -they- overreacted, and now I have to suffer because of a misunderstanding.<br /> <br /> Also, this site requires players to be 13+, and if you aren't, then you are required to have parent permission to play. Long ago, another user made a comment similar to, but not exactly worded... You are required to be at least 13-years-old. If a parent gives their younger children permission to play, then they acknowledge that their child has the maturity of a 13-year-old - because that is the type of content this site will contain, at least 13-year-old content. And I agree with this thought. I noticed another user in the thread state how most 13-year-olds would have the maturity to handle criticism in a mature manner. Therefore, these younger children should be mature enough to handle criticism in a mature way, where if they don't want it, they can calmly state so. Such is the behavior that should be expected - at least that's what I feel.

08-1-2011 at 9:59 PM

Most of what I was thinking has already been mentioned..<br /> <br /> However, I do have a thought..<br /> <br /> According to this rule, artists have to specifically say "I want to be critiqued" to receive it.<br /> <br /> Would a flip to a rule such as this be a satisfying compromise?: if an artist does not want critique, they must specify so in a clear manner(saying specifically "NO CRITIQUE", etc.) and any critiques ignoring their request are breaking the rules.<br /> <br /> <br /> In the current rule, without specification that an artist wants critiques, viewers are to be under the impression that someone does not want criticism.<br /> <br /> In my suggestion of a compromise, unless specified otherwise, viewers are to assume that reasonable, constructive criticism is desired.<br /> <br /> <br /> If someone truly does not desire critique, or can not yet handle it, they should remember to specify so.<br /> <br /> However, speaking as an artist who needs and appreciates critiques, this rule may rob me of additional opportunities to improve should I forget to specify something that I already expect.

08-1-2011 at 9:54 PM

Support. I agree with what all has been said *against* this rule by Xy and most the others. --However maybe not to their levels sometimes.. since I don't do art, I just generally don't like the rule so I wanted to express that.

08-1-2011 at 9:09 PM

As an art student I find disallowing of critique unless asked for very counterproductive for improvement of the artist. Frankly in all the years that I have been at university the driving force of my improvement has been critique from my peers and professors. In fact I do not know that any of the professors have seriously sat down and told us how to draw mark by mark, rather its much better for your growth as an artist to make the mistakes, then be told where your messing up at, and how you might fix it. If you're only ever told how 'awesome' or 'wonderful' your art is, you stagnate and die artistically. You never improve and keep making the same mistakes, or worse start making lower quality art.<br /> <br /> Quite frankly I get a bit annoyed when I post a work in progress looking for critique and only receive 'i like it' type comments. I really want people to tell me where the mistakes are and what they don't like. I seriously thrive off of negative criticism, it keeps me from making the same mistakes and constantly improve. That's not saying I hate when people like my art, but I'd rather know <i>what</i> about it they like exactly, and even that is a form critique. <br /> <br /> I love to critique and reline other people's art, its a 'oh man that is off let me help you fix it' kind of thought, I see nothing malicious or hateful about trying to help other artist improve.<br /> <br /> Its one thing if the artist states on their post 'no crit wanted'. I'll respect that. I mean, I'll still <i>think</i> it, but I won't post it, because what ever they don't want help obviously. But if nothing is said, I will assume that it is fine and welcome to post some crit, I'd expect the same on my own art post, that's the main reason I share my WIPs so much. Quite frankly, I find it rude if someone takes the time and effort to type up a whole critique on your work and you just turn around and say 'no, I don't care' its the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and going LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING. Its childish and immature, that's what it is.<br /> <br /> In my opinion, ANY crit is GOOD crit. You know why? It means people are looking at your art, and felt such a response they had to take time out of their day to say something. For my own part even 'I don't like this art' falls under that. Why? Well it only takes me a few seconds to ask them to elaborate exactly what it is they do not like, is it the colour choice? The anatomy? The positioning? The flow of the piece? I've found over the years if you ask for an elaboration on why someone said they didn't like the art, you can receive a fully written out explanation, and often after the mistake has been pointed out you can see it just as obviously as they did. Its hard to look at your own work right after it's done and find the flaws, its more perfect in your mind than it actually is, but a fresh set of eyes? They are not so biased.<br /> <br /> Also I agree with the general sentiment that site art is public art and should always be open for critique. I mean, Ala <i>is</i> heavily dependent upon it's art. That is the site's main draw, for sure that is why I, myself, joined and suck. Well then, shouldn't the site artist always be striving to improve the art on ala? I know the quality in several areas has improved during the time I've been here. Just look at the fact that some of the older items are being replaced, that is growth! It means the artist have improved to the point that the item no longer meets the standards and is going to be improved upon. I think that is wonderful, more of that mentality is needed. Otherwise Ala will surely stagnate, and people get bored. I always look forward to the new monthlies, I want to see just how much our artist have improved in a month.<br /> <br /> <br /> [I wish to note all of the statements in my post are reflective of my <i>personal</i> opinions and thoughts as an art student. As a mod I will abide and enforce <u>all</u> the rules on Ala. My personal thoughts of any rules have no bearing on how I treat my job.]

08-1-2011 at 8:42 PM

I support this opposition. When I saw the new rule, it felt like a slap in the face. If an artist cannot be mature enough to accept critique, then they shouldn't post it. <br /> <br /> I also feel that SOME people should be banned for harassment by attacking people who offer critique that they don't agree with. I'm not naming names, I don't feel it's really necessary.<br /> <br /> We're all mature, and many of us are adults. Instead of coddling people's feelings by preventing people from offering polite critique, shouldn't we just fall back on the old, "Please follow the rules of a given thread" policy and allow individual artists to ask people to avoid critiquing private work?<br /> <br /> Public site art is just that. It belongs to the whole site, and we are all entitled to have and DISCUSS out opinions about it. If we cannot do so without being respectful, that is a separate matter that I am sure our valuable mod team can address when necessary..

08-1-2011 at 7:22 PM

If you think about it... right now we're critiquing the site/rules by suggesting rule changes.. and what does it often lead to? Progression in the site and new, better features coded! :)