08-26-2011 at 9:53 AM

I recently learned that the show admitted to harassing some of the people and breeders they interviewed. And cut out parts of a highly respected man's interview. Including the parts where he talked about responsible breeding.

08-17-2011 at 9:15 PM

"<br /> I think they have more problems than mixes. I'm glad my Jacks are mixed.<br /> <br /> What are pedigree dogs to you?<br /> <br /> *snort* There's no such thing as purebred/pedigree. All dogs came from other "breeds" of dog, which in that case makes them mixed. They're just "recognized." Go further back, all dogs came from wolves. :P""<br /> <br /> To the first one. A mutt is not going to healthier than a purebred because it's a mix. Just because you mix two breeds doesn't make health problems go away. If the parents have it, they'll likely pass it to the puppies. It all comes down to the dogs behind the dog.<br /> <br /> <br /> And B:<br /> <br /> No not all breeds are mixes. Look up what makes a breed a breed.<br /> <br /> A breed becomes such when they show consistency towards a written standard.

08-17-2011 at 7:54 PM

I don't know about any one else here, but before I adopt a dog I RESEARCH! The breeder mainly. What condition do they keep their dogs? Do they play with them or leave them in there crate except for showing and Breeding? I think you should always go to an expert on the breed and find a Good Breeder. My Grandmother used to breed and Show Shelties. She can easily point out who is breeding well, and who is doing a terrible job. I agree with inbreeding as long as it is a good breeder. <br /> <br /> I truthfully do not agree in paying for mixes. Yes, some are great dogs, but it could be carrying any diseases and don't have to follow ANY rules, meaning there is a lot of chance for disease. Where as, dog with the AKC have to follow rules. Most don't have health issues. <br /> <br /> You know the "Goldendoodles" and "CockerPoos" and other 'Designer Breeds' are all breeders who were kicked out of the AKC because they did not follow rules or carried diseases. <br /> <br /> Adopting a mix from a shelter is fine. But you should NEVER pay for a 'designer' breed. Mixes are some of the best dogs. But not 'designer breeds'. The breeds are all recently started lines, of which had almost no thought in them. Like 'Oh! I'm going to breed a Golden and my Poodle and make it a "Goldendoodle" And sell them!" Breeds in the AKC (or trying to get in) have put years and many different blood lines into these dogs to get them where they are perfect for what they are bred for. Eventually it becomes a breed, and they breed them with others of that breed. <br /> <br /> I hope this helps inform some people.

08-11-2011 at 5:32 PM

What do YOU think of pedigree dogs? <br /> <br /> I think they have more problems than mixes. I'm glad my Jacks are mixed.<br /> <br /> What are pedigree dogs to you? <br /> <br /> *snort* There's no such thing as purebred/pedigree. All dogs came from other "breeds" of dog, which in that case makes them mixed. They're just "recognized." Go further back, all dogs came from wolves. :P<br /> <br /> Your opinion of the documentary?(if you've watched it) <br /> <br /> It was very sad. I felt so sorry for the KC spaniels. And how the Bull Terrier's heads were deformed. What the heck is that for? It makes them look like aliens. I'm outraged.

08-10-2011 at 5:44 PM

I do agree that the video was incredibly biased but most of what it said is still true. There are problems needing to be fixed, there are still HUGE changes in breeds today that lean towards the extremes.

08-10-2011 at 7:34 AM

For those who watched the documentary I suggest you also read this;<br /> <br /> http://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/568/<br /> <br /> There is a part one to that bit too.<br /> <br /> That documentary was bluntly biased and after watching it I had to do some research. Unsurprisingly the documentary misrepresented certain breeds and took quotes out of context.

08-10-2011 at 6:45 AM

Jive: Yeah, the temperaments were the biggest issue my mother in law had when picking dogs from lines. She bred German shepherds for the military, and when buying puppies from a new breeder, and different lines than she was used to, she often wound up with some horribly aggressive dogs, some so mean that she couldn't even feed them without them trying to remove her hand. Needless to say, she didn't breed these dogs, and they weren't sold to the military/polite. xD

08-9-2011 at 9:52 PM

Like I said, breeders who breed sound, healthy GSDs, I don't have an issue with. But, again, they tend not to win in the show ring, sadly. That's what needs to be addressed: the organization as a whole needs to recognize this issue, not just <i>some</i> breeders...otherwise, it will never go away.<br /> <br /> Also, don't be so quick to credit police forces. The ones where I used to live were poorly bred Malinois/GSDs...they didn't have the hips, but they weren't healthy (mentally or physically) by a long shot. They thought because they got them from Germany, they were ridiculously well bred, but...the person breeding them didn't compete them, and we saw a lot of awful temperaments and health issues. :/

08-9-2011 at 12:30 PM

I agree Kat.<br /> Especially if you want a working/sports dog they need to be physically sound and have the right temperament.

08-9-2011 at 12:26 PM

What about it Tiger?<br /> I watched the whole thing.<br /> I see people breeding dogs simply for looks and not taking health into consideration.<br /> The documentary was quite biased at points and some interviews were quite immature.<br />

08-9-2011 at 10:29 AM

Well, most people prefer purebred dogs as they know what they are mostly going to look like, the size, personality, and probable health issues. With a mutt you have no idea what illnesses it's past might have, problems, breeds, etc. You also don't know exactly how big it's going to get or what it's personality is going to be around. (all dogs are different) I personally wouldn't mind that but it's just a fact that most people these days want purebred as they're not breeding to get better pups for working in the fields etc. they're breeding to be perfect in the show ring.<br /> <br /> Honestly it really does depend on the breeder. If I see a breeder of extremely sloping GSDs then I'd debate reporting them to the spca even though they couldn't do much even though the poor dogs can't even run/walk correctly.<br /> <br /> However if you see a pedigreed breeder of working GSDs then those are much more healthier than the other and I'd snatch one up right away as they're hard to find nowadays sadly. All police GSDs are working class as show class wouldn't be able to perform the way they were made to.<br /> <br /> <br /> Here is a working GSD:<br /> <img src="http://www.germandogtrainingcenter.com/photos/Gloria&Riggor075.jpg" alt="working"/><br /> <br /> Note how the back slopes very little if not at all, it's strong, alert, and intelligent and can do it's job.<br /> <br /> as opposed to a show class GSD:<br /> <img src="http://www.donauwolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/saskia.jpg" alt="show class"/><br /> <br /> Think of it walking and see how 'awkward' ,I guess you could put it, it is just trying to do the basic thing ever dog does.

08-9-2011 at 10:08 AM

I value all your opinions. Truthfully, I never thought ANYONE would reply to my debate topic, and I was hoping I could learn a bit more about Pedigree Dogs and global views of them through a debate. :D I'm glad everyone's here to discuss at least.<br /> <br /> I never seen a GSD with a sloping back really, and I've never even heard of a professional Dog show until I watched the documentary. (I live in a place so small it lacks almost everything) So just seeing the warped back legs of the GSD and the judges calling them 'Normal' had me scratching my head. But what am I to say? X'3 if people are raised to believe a certain fact then it'll be hard to change their POV.<br /> <br /> @Kat, I dunno if breeding mixes would create more shelter dogs, but after watching the documentary, it almost feels like breeding dogs of the same breed only deteriorates the breed more. I don't mind keeping mixes, they are after all still dogs. And really I don't know much about breeding so I can't actually put a firm finger on either side. :'D<br /> <br /> @Celestial88, I'm not too sure about inbreeding myself, but <i>according</i> to the documentary it seemed pretty bad, and when the reporter asked the chief of whatever (forgotten >.&lt;) "Would you have a baby with your daughter?" it kind of clicked in my mind and it was 'Ew' the first word that popped up. Sure, dogs aren't like humans, we can't compare them like that, and well.. there might be cases in the wild where dogs inbreed all the time, but I doubt that they'll inbreed on purpose like how humans are making them. <br /> <br /> I don't really understand how inbreeding could pass a certain 'show' gene to it's next generation. Are they inbreeding for colour? Marking? Diseases (I hope not)? or just because they're champions? I doubt you can pass on a 'Champion' gene to your next generation.<br /> <br /> I never liked pugs only because I thought they looked like they ran themselves into a wall or something, but after watching the documentary I feel sorry for them. The panting that they always do must feel like human having asthma, since neither can breath properly and Asthma is when your throat constricts and well you can't breath. I'm not too sure what happened to the Pit Bull (I think it's a pit bull? o.O) for it seems to spasms whenever it enters the living room? (perhaps someone could explain?) and the Cavalier Spaniels seem to suffer pain like no one could imagine yet no one cared? Are there similar disease of brains being too large for our skulls in humans? I reckon it'll hurt and I would agree with Inno, to put the dog to sleep instead.

08-9-2011 at 6:52 AM

Celestial88, go back and watch the video and pay attention to the part about the pug from the championship lines and the champion Pekinese

08-8-2011 at 5:52 PM

I wish I wasn't having keyboard issues,* I could give you a longer reply. :(<br /> As inbreeding can strengthen good traits, it can also strengthen<br /> bad. It comes down to the individual dog's genetics.<br /> The breeders need to<br /> pay attention to these things and closely watch for hereditary<br /> conditions.

08-8-2011 at 5:45 PM

American Pit Bull Terriers true to the original dogs are hard to come by. They are from dog fighting lines primarily and<br /> are pedigreed.<br /> Like <a href="http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad178/i_heart_dakota/4.jpg">this</a> dog.<br /> Sorry to get off topic...

08-8-2011 at 5:40 PM

Celestial, as much as I agree that <i>some</i> linebreeding can be used in a responsible manner, direct inbreeding definitely can and does increase the risk of defects after a few generations. I think the dogs in the videos are likely from breeders that inbreed <i>too much</i>, and sadly, many conformation show breeders do this. Having worked for several vets that work directly with (always AKC) show dogs, I can tell you we've had to euthanize many pups with serious issues (severe cleft pallet was a common occurrence) and had many more stillborns with those dogs than with almost any other pregnant dogs we had come in. We did a lot of work for local rescues and handled many pregnant dogs from them...as well as a lot of "oops I didn't spay my dog and now she's pregnant" ones. (Those aren't <i>better</i>, mind, but that's another topic.) No other dogs had such consistent problems with genetic deformities as the Bull Terriers that one showing couple would bring in or the Boxers several other people would bring in (big Boxer show group in my area).<br /> <br /> And just to sort of quantify, we were not a low-volume clinic (for the area) at all. We had 10 phone lines, 5 doctors, and were open 24 hours when no one else was...and we had been in business some 12 years with many established clients in the show ring as well as doing a lot of work for ~4 different shelters/rescues in the area. I worked there for ~3 years at one location and ~2 in another (corporate-owned). I saw a <i>massive amount</i> of puppies born in those 6 years, many of them from champion lines. The inbred ones usually had invariably at least one euthanasia for some deformity, unless the litter was very small.<br /> <br /> Now, I don't think all breeders are like that. There are many who use a reasonable amount of linebreeding to improve their lines and are careful not to overdo it. They're responsible, and I don't fault them at all. But most of them are also not in the show ring <i>only</i>. Most of them do other activities/sports/competitions with their dogs and breed for things other than looks, though. Sadly, most of the AKC champion GSD breeders...well, they don't. And what they've done to a lot of other breeds (many of the "short" breeds like bassets and doxies...and what they're selecting as champion Border Collies...and the fact that they encourage more white on Dalmatians, which results in more deaf/blind pups...) results to about the same thing: a corruption of a beautiful, functional breed into something less sound and unfit for its original purpose by judging in favor of extremes in the standards.<br /> Because that's what the organization's judges have chosen in the past, many breeders lean toward some very unhealthy trends for the breeds they should be trying to better. It's not just the breeders; it's the organization's bias as a whole. Not all registries do this, but AKC has been bad about it with some breeds, and, sadly, that is the registry most people here know and use. The organization as a whole needs a little adjusting, starting with standards being more strict on functionality and actual health...and then getting the judges to enforce that. At least, that's what I'd like to see happen.<br /> <br /> Wow, this got longer than I intended...:I

08-8-2011 at 5:29 PM

I think the ethics really depend on the pedigree dog's history(ies). Our mastiff is a pedigree dog. He's not very close to the standard and is physically fairly healthy, but he has a fearful, high-strung personality. Even dogs that aren't majorly inbred can have issues. There are also breeds like the pit bull breeds, which have mostly stayed true to their original type, yet are pedigreed.<br /> <br /> It really depends on the breeders. Those who are unethical are like the Cavalier breeders in the video who willingly bred dogs with euthanization-worthy genetic defects due to looks are unethical while a working-line GSD breeder who breeds pedigree dogs for sound health, tempermeant, etc. that falls under the umbrella of the standard is ethical.

08-8-2011 at 5:01 PM

In response to the video.<br /> <br /> Inbreeding can be used to strengthen desired characteristics, traits, temperaments, etc. But you have to add a different line in there after awhile because if you continually inbreed for a long time it can cause a limited gene pool. Which will cause offspring to be "true" in other words identical to their parents. Which wouldn't leave room to improve the dogs.

08-8-2011 at 4:48 PM

Don't breed your dogs unless they are purebred, mixbreeds just create more shelter dogs. I support pedigrees to the fullest. Mostly it depends on the breed. Like I would never purchase a showing pedigreed GSD just because they look like frogs and have soo many health issues due to that. Now pedigreed working GSDs? I'm all for it. Good breeding of boxers result in my sister's boxers which have never been ill in their lives.

08-8-2011 at 4:43 PM

Pedigree Dogs Exposed shows many ignorant points. For example, inbreeding doesn't cause defects.<br /> And mixed breeds being healthier is also false.<br /> It comes down to the individual genetic<br /> and breeding.<br /> I do not support breeding dogs without a pedigree, the pedigree is there to show what's in the dog. You can see if it's full of titles or just pet<br /> dogs, you can see structure of ancestors and possible hereditary things it can<br /> carry.<br /> <br /> <br /> Disclaimer:<br /> I haven't watched the video in<br /> awhile. I will rewatch.