Dog Parks
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Leekar (#91)
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I thought there was a debate thread up about this but I didn't see it. =x
So yes, dog parks. I'm sure you've all heard of them, correct? I'd like hear what everyone has to say about them, as I've heard a lot of good and bad. Prior to typing this I tried to do a little research on different views people have on dog parks and found very few negative ones.
Now then, I guess I'll start off with my own personal experiences. I use to take my American Cocker Spaniel, Lucy, to the dog park. She enjoys running around with dogs her size, its really the only chance she got to play with other dogs and she enjoyed it. Lucy is a very mellow, well-behaved girl. I had to take her early in the morning to beat the rush because of so many people bringing in their giant, uncontrollable puppies that would tackle her and try to play so rough with my dog that I'd just have to pick up Lucy and leave. After a while I stopped going, I never liked how our dog park was set up to have large dogs in with small dogs.
Then I got Draco, my German Shepherd mix. I was young when I got him and everyone stressed that Draco needs socialization, as he is a mix prone to dog aggression. I approached a few trainers at Petsmart, probably a stupid move on my part but again, I was young, and they suggested that I take Draco to the dog park. Okay, Draco is a bigger dog now, was around 7 months of age. He wouldn't be getting tackled like Lucy. So I figured why not? Drakie has met many dogs, knows how to behave around small dogs as he lives with one and minds me well.
Biggest mistake I ever made with him. Draco's first visits went wonderfully. He got to meet other playful pups and got to play with dogs more his size, something he doesn't get at home. It was great socialization for him. Then on our fourth or fifth visit, was earlier in the day when it was still cool so there wasn't many dogs there, me and Draco were playing fetch when someone came into the dog park with a bull terrier. We paid it little mind, Draco and I were at the far end of the park and Drakie was more interested in this tennis ball than a new dog.
This bull terrier ran straight across the dog park the moment that leash came off, mind you our dog park isn't all that huge, and attacked my dog. I don't know why. I STILL don't know what went through that dogs mind. He didn't just bite Draco or throw my dog to the ground. He MAULED him. It took this dogs owner beating the bull terriers face to get him to let go of Draco's face. My dog was screaming and crying, bleeding everywhere. That man left without an apology and before I could even say much to him. My mother wanted to go after him, she was there with me with Lucy, but I was more interested in getting Draco to a vet.
Draco got stitches on his lips, his face, and to this day can't trust strange dogs larger than a cocker spaniel, aside from his two pit bull buddies. That one moment imprinted on him so badly it completely destroyed his puppyhood, we spent the next few months retraining him to be confident on walks and trust the world again. I haven't stepped foot in a dog park since, nor do I have anything good to say about them.
However, I heard that we have another dog park in another town, about an hour drive from us, that HAS small dog and big dog sections, which brings me to point of this debate. Sometime early next year my girlfriend and I plan to get two puppies, a Corgi and an Italian Greyhound. Would it be wise to take them to this new dog park? I've seen it once and it's far better set up. What do you guys think? Is my dog park just a mess and poorly set up or are all dog parks a generally bad idea? I'd love to hear some opinions on this because as of right now I'm really not for taking a dog into a dog park again.
So yes, dog parks. I'm sure you've all heard of them, correct? I'd like hear what everyone has to say about them, as I've heard a lot of good and bad. Prior to typing this I tried to do a little research on different views people have on dog parks and found very few negative ones.
Now then, I guess I'll start off with my own personal experiences. I use to take my American Cocker Spaniel, Lucy, to the dog park. She enjoys running around with dogs her size, its really the only chance she got to play with other dogs and she enjoyed it. Lucy is a very mellow, well-behaved girl. I had to take her early in the morning to beat the rush because of so many people bringing in their giant, uncontrollable puppies that would tackle her and try to play so rough with my dog that I'd just have to pick up Lucy and leave. After a while I stopped going, I never liked how our dog park was set up to have large dogs in with small dogs.
Then I got Draco, my German Shepherd mix. I was young when I got him and everyone stressed that Draco needs socialization, as he is a mix prone to dog aggression. I approached a few trainers at Petsmart, probably a stupid move on my part but again, I was young, and they suggested that I take Draco to the dog park. Okay, Draco is a bigger dog now, was around 7 months of age. He wouldn't be getting tackled like Lucy. So I figured why not? Drakie has met many dogs, knows how to behave around small dogs as he lives with one and minds me well.
Biggest mistake I ever made with him. Draco's first visits went wonderfully. He got to meet other playful pups and got to play with dogs more his size, something he doesn't get at home. It was great socialization for him. Then on our fourth or fifth visit, was earlier in the day when it was still cool so there wasn't many dogs there, me and Draco were playing fetch when someone came into the dog park with a bull terrier. We paid it little mind, Draco and I were at the far end of the park and Drakie was more interested in this tennis ball than a new dog.
This bull terrier ran straight across the dog park the moment that leash came off, mind you our dog park isn't all that huge, and attacked my dog. I don't know why. I STILL don't know what went through that dogs mind. He didn't just bite Draco or throw my dog to the ground. He MAULED him. It took this dogs owner beating the bull terriers face to get him to let go of Draco's face. My dog was screaming and crying, bleeding everywhere. That man left without an apology and before I could even say much to him. My mother wanted to go after him, she was there with me with Lucy, but I was more interested in getting Draco to a vet.
Draco got stitches on his lips, his face, and to this day can't trust strange dogs larger than a cocker spaniel, aside from his two pit bull buddies. That one moment imprinted on him so badly it completely destroyed his puppyhood, we spent the next few months retraining him to be confident on walks and trust the world again. I haven't stepped foot in a dog park since, nor do I have anything good to say about them.
However, I heard that we have another dog park in another town, about an hour drive from us, that HAS small dog and big dog sections, which brings me to point of this debate. Sometime early next year my girlfriend and I plan to get two puppies, a Corgi and an Italian Greyhound. Would it be wise to take them to this new dog park? I've seen it once and it's far better set up. What do you guys think? Is my dog park just a mess and poorly set up or are all dog parks a generally bad idea? I'd love to hear some opinions on this because as of right now I'm really not for taking a dog into a dog park again.
Celestial's Dakonic Shepherds (#3992)
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08-27-2011 at 9:24 AM
Sometimes, /sometimes/ you can find a good trainer at Pet'smart. If you're interested in taking classes I'd recommend sitting in on a class and seeing if they're any good.
Ashton ❄ (#5636)
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08-27-2011 at 12:37 AM
Petsmart trainers don't have any credentials to actually train dogs; they're random employees who take a 2 week (or sometimes less) crash course in how to talk to people, essentially.<br /> <br /> Tiger; some dogs are naturally more fearful/aggressive than others. In general though, dogs are most prone to fear issues in the 2-4 month period I mentioned previously. :><br /> <br /> This is especially true in the bully breeds. (The natural aggression derived from fear, that is. They were bred to fight when threatened.)
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2011-08-27 00:39:09 by #5636
Tiger (#42)
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08-26-2011 at 6:54 AM
If the "fear period" is only from 7-9months of age then how does it explain my friends 15month old American Bulldog being attacked by a Cane Corso at the dog park and now wont let any new dogs into the house, even ones she's known since she was a puppy, and now being dog aggressive outside of the house also (my friend can still control her and redirect her but its still a problem).
Larthan (#8598)
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08-26-2011 at 1:40 AM
Shadow - In my opinion, petsmart training is really only good for socialization. I took the full Animal Behavior College course, and when I went to apply... I found out that they make the "trainers" (who have no dog training experience whatsoever) take a 2 week class that only covered a portion of what I learned in two years. And I didn't even learn everything I wanted to know!<br /> For instance, I did learn about the fear period, which makes some things really big issues later on if there is an incident during that time that really impacts the dog. Frequently that happens to be dog attacks, though being stepped on, yelled at, abused, yanked on by children, loud noises that scare the dog, all that stuff gets imprinted during this time, too. Think of it from a wolf's point of view - during this time, the wolf pups are learning what all is 'scary' and 'dangerous' - and thus to avoid it all in the future, or lash out against it if it cannot be avoided.
Celestial's Dakonic Shepherds (#3992)
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08-25-2011 at 10:28 PM
It doesn't have to be during the fear stage. I've known many dogs who were attacked and are over 2 years old and now have fear aggression or fear issues. <br /> <br /> <br />
Leekar (#91)
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08-25-2011 at 8:13 PM
Hm Ash, I've never heard of the 'fear period', it sure would explain why Draco couldn't let that one bad dog experience go. Would have been nice if the 'trainers' at petsmart had mention as much when they steered a new puppy owner straight to the dog park for means of socialization. =/ I really regret putting so much faith in them.
Ashton ❄ (#5636)
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08-25-2011 at 7:26 PM
Your problem in that situation was not the fact that you took your dog to the dog park - in fact, the dog park is a wonderful learning tool for a puppy...<br /> <br /> EXCEPT when they are in the period when they are about 7-9 months of age. This is the so-called "fear period" in puppies, meaning any attacks that happen then, they will remember forever. I carefully tiptoed around that period with my puppy last year, and in those couple months I only allowed him to play with dogs that he had played with countless times before without incident. <br /> <br /> I didn't allow him to meet any new dogs, or play with any dogs who I knew to be aggressive on occasion. <br /> <br /> Now he's about a year and 6 months old and all that is behind us - I now have a dog that has never been aggressive towards another animal, and any time a dog is aggressive with him, he simply runs away and doesn't even bother trying to fight back.<br /> <br /> I'm really sorry that happened to your dog - I had a similar situation happen with our previous dog. She's an American Staffordshire Terrier, and we had her from the time she was 4 months old. When she was a puppy she played great with dogs.<br /> <br /> One day we were walking her by the river, and out of nowhere this huge GSD came and brutally attacked her. I think I was about 9 years old at the time and to this day I still get a little nervous around GSDs. From that day forward, Cali was extremely fearful and aggressive towards larger dogs.<br /> <br /> She was about 8 months old at the time.<br /> <br /> Basically with any future dogs, avoid that period like wildfire and ONLY socialize your dog with other dogs that you completely trust.
Leekar (#91)
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08-17-2011 at 4:35 PM
Celestial88 spoke my worries exactly, there is a lot to risk and after what happened to Draco I don't want to end up with another dog aggressive dog. x-x One is enough.<br /> <br /> But I do see what you mean, Horseman. This new dog park, from what I gathered, is better maintained, friendlier and all around better set up. All the problems I've had and seen were with larger dogs. The small dogs I've yet to see stir up any kind of trouble. I might hang out there, get a feel for the park, see how it is, and we'll see from there. <br /> <br /> I like the idea of puppy play groups, I'll be looking into those.
Celestial's Dakonic Shepherds (#3992)
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08-17-2011 at 3:56 PM
You don't need an aggressive dog for a bad situation. Play could get too rough, resource guarding, high arousal, dogs in heat,etc etc. Overall too risky for me, the chances are too high since you have no control over people.
Horseman (#4055)
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08-16-2011 at 3:38 PM
It really depends on the dog park. Overall, I support them. We used to take our Mastiff to the dog park all the time when he was a puppy. He was also a very rude, yet harmless puppy that other dogs treated like an adult due to his size. However, he only got attacked once of all the many times, and it was a muzzled spaniel that never came back to the park. Even though the most regular attendees were, interestingly, two boxers, an American bulldog, and an unfixed male and female pitbull pair. None of them ever got in fights while we were there. If you find a dog park that's well-maintained and always has its regular crowd of serious dog lovers, they will usually look down on/shun anyone who is letting their aggressive dogs run loose. Those owners of aggressive dogs probably move on to parks that don't have that kind of social pressure present. To find a good dog park, I recommend staying around at all the ones near your house and observing what kind of people go there If it's a good one, there will be a regular group of attendees who tend to exert strong social pressure on those who have misbehaved dogs.
Celestial's Dakonic Shepherds (#3992)
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08-15-2011 at 7:46 PM
I'm not for dog parks, I used to go to them but there are too many risks. You have no control over who brings what dog, I saw many fights and many potential fights that I stopped because their owners weren't paying attention. <br /> <br /> For socialization I get in touch with my sports friends, take puppy socialization/training classes, bring them to places such as pet stores.
Leekar (#91)
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08-14-2011 at 6:24 PM
See, that's what I'm hoping KaT. I'd like to think responsible owners would know if their dog should or shouldn't be in a dog park. The sad truth is I've seen a lot of dogs there that honestly shouldn't be. I saw a German Shepherd there once that had his tail tucked and hid behind it's owner the entire time, barking and snapping at any dog who came close. I figure since it's mostly large breeds I've had problems with that a small dog dog park might not be so bad? I just don't know if I want to risk another vet bill.<br /> <br /> And ohhhhh man, had that happened to me now I would have pressed charges. I would have cursed that man out. As it was, I was young and crying and far more concerned about getting my puppy to the vet. =/ <br /> <br /> I will speak to a vet and see if there are any such puppy socializing get togethers but as of right now, aside from puppy classes, there is no such thing around us. I was thinking about hanging around the small dog dog park, without any of my dogs, and seeing how all the dogs are as well as their owners. But again, I don't know. I'm still hesitant. I'd love to give our new pups a place to run off leash and play, since both an Italian Greyhound and a Corgi would love that.
Mrs.Kat-Clause (#1521)
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08-14-2011 at 6:06 PM
Don't let the whole dog park experience discourage you. I've been taking my pup ever since I got him and he's a tiny jack russell! If too big of dogs come I do take him to the smaller dog area but otherwise, I'm pretty sure that you could sue that man (or something like that, press charges whatever) although his dog would probably be put down.<br /> <br /> Most responsible owners know if their dog is capable of going, I think dog parks are great but you just have to make sure their are responsible owners rather than stupid ones who obviously don't even have enough dignity to apologize and offer to pay.
fly (#623)
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08-14-2011 at 1:31 PM
we don't have any proper dog parks in the area of England I live in... the closest thing is a section of a field where you can let your dogs run at a national trust house >.><br /> though there are puppy classes and groups and stuff, a lot of vets do puppy groups to socialize puppies that don't have their vaccine courses completed...
Leekar (#91)
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08-14-2011 at 12:21 PM
The closest thing we've found to puppy play groups is Puppy Classes, which we already plan to enroll our pups in. :D <br /> <br /> Hopefully we can find something like that around here because that really does sound a great deal better.
Tiger (#42)
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08-14-2011 at 12:15 PM
Try and find puppy play groups. My friend when her American Bull Dog and Pittbull Terrier were young would go to Bully Dog play groups and have them at her house. Great controlled way to get socialization w/o the unpredictability of a dog park.<br /> <br /> Her AmBulldog (16 or 17months old now) though just recently at the dog park was attacked by a Cain Corso and will no longer let any adult dogs into the house other than the 2 that live there, even ones who have been coming over since she was a puppy...
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2011-08-14 12:16:03 by #42