05-17-2011 at 2:34 AM

Them fighting for the "right" to be equal seems like a moot point to me. Again, it's not something I agree with but you can't force people to accept you. It's just really a fact of life right now that gay people are not treated equally. No amount of force from the gay community is going to make that so though. In my opinion the best way for any group/minority what have you is to argue and fight as little as possible. In the end people are going to form their own opinions. Get the word out but do it politely. If someone wants to say gay people are going to hell nod and move on. SHOW people who disagree that your good people and no different from them. Battle head to head with them and the results are not going to be them considering you equal. They are just going to feel bullied and want to retaliate. <br /> <br /> Which is why I mentioned that there is obviously things you HAVE to fight for. Changing peoples opinions and MAKING them recognize something is not a fight worth having though. Peoples minds are going to change over time. It's a tragedy it really is but it's a long hall that gay people are in for despite wanting to be. <br /> <br /> Like you mentioned, haters are going to hate... it sucks... it's frustrating but it's the real world with all of it's good and bad. I think the least attention drawn to the gay community is good publicity. Let people see things in their own time and own way. Until then obviously you HAVE to fight for rights which is sad because you are right you should already have them. In that conquest though I would think it would be a priority to make as little waves with any other group as possible... for YOUR benefit.<br /> <br /> <br /> Again, I feel bad sharing my thoughts on this because it brings a lot of harsh truths to the surface but I can't stress enough that I am 100% behind you guys. You guys are out picketing ... so am I. Some kid at school gets bullied because he/she's gay I"M THERE. My father in law is gay, my friends are gay, random people that I meet are gay and to me they are exactly equal no worse no less. Although in general I love gay men because they are safe to go to bars with and I love lesbian chicks because they will get in the mud with me lol XD Kinda stereotyping there but that's what I've experienced. <br><br><br /> I mean I think about these issues all the time and if I could make the whole world see you guys from my eyes I would. <br><br><br /> <br /> Also I want to be clear that I agree with what all of you have posted. I think that you should have the same title, same rights, same everything... to me though the fact that what's going on is wrong has very little to do with anything. It's wrong but it can't really be changed. I feel as though if the gay community does prevail in getting the title marriage it's really not a battle won because instead of being considered equal instead of having people who were just angry with the idea of it but not putting to much thought into it you are going to have christian crazies who feel utter hate for you and want revenge for you taking something that they believe is theirs. It doesn't make me think that you are being equal it makes me think of a war where one side prevails by force. The other side isn't going to respect them for that battle won. <br><br><br /> <br /> Ultimately in the end of it all though I support the gay community. Whatever rights you guys are fighting for I'm behind you. If the community decides that it's a battle that they want and they don't want to compromise with different terminology... when voting time comes I've got your backs because it IS right that you have it. In my opinion though it just isn't the best way. There are more effective ways to achieve it.

05-17-2011 at 1:33 AM

<i>"But I’m unsure about anyone else but I believe marriage is the goal of gays because it will symbolize they’re equal to everyone else. If they have to change the word that means they’re not totally accepted. They’re fighting for the word marriage and its benefits to try for their total equality in unionization between a couple and that homosexual is no different than heterosexual.<br /> <br /> The word marriage isn’t just a word to homosexuals. It’s the right they’ve been fighting for.</i>" <br /> <br /> I dont get the big deal about the word as long as everyone HAS the same rights in the end. I personally think changing the legal paper document would be a great way to shoot down all the religious people's argument.<br /> <br /> I mean i totally agree that marriage has been around LONG before Christianity came to be around 2000 years ago but that's the main argument. So if we call the government document one thing and leave the label to the church then something may come of it. and if you do your research there are many churches that will marry same sex couples w/ or w/o a license.

05-16-2011 at 7:29 PM

It isn't so much of a gay rights issue as it is a <b>human rights issue</b>. To deny homosexuals the right to marry is treating them lower then straights, lower then other human beings. This is terrible.

05-16-2011 at 5:24 PM

To Bridget&Josh<br /> <br /> I believe I understand your situation as you’re trying to find a middle ground that all gays and religious people could agree upon. <br /> <br /> But I’m unsure about anyone else but I believe marriage is the goal of gays because it will symbolize they’re equal to everyone else. If they have to change the word that means they’re not totally accepted. They’re fighting for the word marriage and its benefits to try for their total equality in unionization between a couple and that homosexual is no different than heterosexual. <br /> <br /> The word marriage isn’t just a word to homosexuals. It’s the right they’ve been fighting for. It’s the word of freedom to them. They will fight for ‘marriage’ not ‘civil unions’ until they received the same respect, rights, privileges, and spot in society as heterosexual couples. <br /> <br /> Either way, it comes down to that there is most likely going to be no middle-ground. <br /> <br /> If you vote for gay marriage, religious people will get upset. If you don’t vote for gay marriage, flamboyant homosexuals are going to be upset. Religious people are going to hate. Gays are going to hate. Gators gunna gait.<br /> <br /> Someone will get their toes stomped on, but you have to find what you believe is right.<br /> <br /> It all comes to perspective as: Marriage rights to a human being with another human being or respecting religions adoption of marriage?<br /> <br /> The denying of basic human rights is horrible over all. <br /> <br /> Bridget&Josh, I’m happy you try to see a middle ground but in my perspective a middle ground cannot be found. And that’s the reason why gays are fighting for equality, because a middle ground will be slanted to the position of anti-gay. <br /> <br /> It’s all or nothing to them. <br /> <br /> But that's just my opinion and how I feel about it.

05-16-2011 at 2:31 PM

I agree with that, but Bridgette, you are making it sound like only heterosexual Christians should be able to use the term "marriage" which I highly disagree with. I am not Christian and never will be, but I would like to be able to use the term marriage to describe the legal and spiritual relationship I hope to have with someone someday. Just because I am not Christian (and they may or may not be), and because they may also be a woman like me, does not mean that I should not be able to use the term marriage to describe it.

05-16-2011 at 2:25 PM

This ----> <br /> <br /> I think the legal piece of paper anyone (gay, straight, short, tall, bisexual, transgender, orange, green w/ pink pokkadots Leprechan, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Athiest, Agnostic, Wicca...etc etc) gets when they are legally married by the state should be a "Civil Union License" and leave the "marriage" part up to your religious leader<br /> <br />The above SO much. That would take care of a lot for a lot of people! <br><br> "oh you're gay, you're different and therefor you can't use this word" <br /> <br /> Like I mentioned I thought the terminology should apply to everyone. As for my religion I haven't told you what my religion is and I personally do not have any conflict at all with gay people using the term married. My opinion comes from the people who it does bother for that reason. I personally don't know what the "facts" are. I only know the issue as I have researched it spoke to people and came to understand it. My understanding is the term is from the bible therefore they have claimed the word. I am a peace all around kind of person. I will kindly respect other peoples views and opinions and not stomp on them unless there is a legitimate reason it needs to be done. The terminology is silly and not something worth arguing about for me. Therefore, my opinion is to not tick off the hardcore christians and gay people still get what they want and deserve. Yeah, fight for the rights, fight for the benefits, and fight to be recognized by everyone as together... why fight over the word? <br /> <br /> That is all assuming though that the government would allow the terminology to be changed. Which honestly is kind of a tall order because they will probably have new reasons why it can't be done because ultimately I do believe they are disallowing it just because.

05-16-2011 at 2:06 PM

I think the legal piece of paper anyone (gay, straight, short, tall, bisexual, transgender, orange, green w/ pink pokkadots Leprechan, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Athiest, Agnostic, Wicca...etc etc) gets when they are legally married by the state should be a "Civil Union License" and leave the "marriage" part up to your religious leader

05-16-2011 at 8:06 AM

Bridgette&Josh, marriage was around before Christianity and exists in all religions and cultures. So saying it's a Christian thing and that we're "kind of intentionally stomping on a special tradition for christian people" is pretty factually inaccurate and it's kind of rude to claim that it's a special tradition for Christians only. Even if we call it gay "joined" we're still treating them like second class citizens - saying oh you're gay, you're different and therefor you can't use this word, it's for heterosexual Christians only. <br /> <br /> I respect your religion, but I find it hard to respect your belief that marriage should be exclusive to it, because that's just, for lack for a better word, selfish.

05-16-2011 at 3:17 AM

I think Love is Love no matter what gender.<br /> Yes to gay support and same sex marrying.

05-15-2011 at 4:53 PM

Just saying, marriage was around long before Christianity was around.

05-15-2011 at 9:02 AM

I have a hard time expressing my views about this. A lot of people jump on me before they here my reasoning for it. Hopefully, you will read though and understand and at the very least respect my views. <br /> <br /> To start with I am honest to goodness a huge supporter of gay rights. I find gay people to be EXACTLY like me and certainly no better or no worse. I have no problem with gay people being together at all. In my mind it's not exactly the "intended" way for things but it's not wrong it's just different and different can be good :) <br /> <br /> The term "marriage" is where my stance on this comes into play though. While people do not associate the term "marriage" with christian religion that IS where it came from. Being married whether people realize it or not is a christian tradition and ceremony. Which yes, to me makes it equally as bad for atheists or people who are not christian to get "married". The only reason I have an issue with this is because I have a deep respect for everyone. It does in deed specify that marriage is between a man and a woman. Therefore, I feel like if we allow gay "marriage" (or atheist marriage... which we already do but I just don't want anyone to think I am singling out a specific group here) that we are kind of intentionally stomping on a special tradition for christian people. <br /> <br /> That being said I believe gay people should be able to be together with ALL of the benefits and titles that straight people have. I think that a fair compromise to the situation though is for all parties to have respect to the other. Which I think could easily be accomplished by the government being committed to offer gay people the same rights as straight people but as for the terminology I think it should be changed. I think that it would show a mutual respect for everyone concerned. For gay people to demand that the christian religion accept them in a tradition that specifies MAN and WOMAN seems unfair. The same as Christian people who are appalled by gay marriage saying that gay people should not be allowed to be joined and have the same benefits. <br /> <br /> So for me... ideally .... gay "marriage" is a no. Gay "Joined" or shoot honestly I can't come up with a good word because I like most of you are probably so used to the term married. I do think that it is a fair solution though and I'm sure there is a word out there that would be amazing not only for gay people but also for straight people who just don't associate themselves with the christian religion. <br /> <br /> Also I'd like to add that I am totally aware that there are many gay christians. I have no problem with that at all. Nothing in the bible says that gay people can't be christian lol. My issue with marriage is just because it is a long standing tradition that is very specific. <br><br><br /> I also realize that most people simply don't want to recognize gay couples and that appalls me. I realize that mosts arguments whether they mention religion or not is simply for the above reason and again it appalls me. I do have respect for everyones religions/beliefs/faith and I do think no one should "push" theirs on anyone else. To me pushing the WORD marriage to gay people is stomping on Christian tradition. Just because I don't agree that it should be a male x female only tradition ... I still respect it. <br><br><br /> And if the word IS changed I think that everyone should be able and want to take advantage of that. I don't think that it should single out the gay population but it should also become popular for anyone that isn't of christian faith because ultimately since it is a christian religion I think it's a bit unfair that people who are not christian have to honor a tradition to be joined on paper and recognized by the government.<br><br><br /> I think marriage in most peoples minds is a public and celebratory way to be recognized as joined and to express your commitment to each other and for the government to also recognize it and give you all of the benefits? If that's true the terminology is really irrelevant.

05-13-2011 at 2:27 AM

Mostly I'm just bothered that it's still an issue. <br /> <br /> It's very clearly unconstitutional to disallow same-sex marriage, especially since it's usually based on religious arguments and this is not meant to be a theocratic country. It makes me sad to see that in this day and age we've still got people up there saying same sex couples can't get married because "marriage is a religious institution". Marriage does have a lot of religious connotations, and if you consider it to be some sacred whatsit then that is perfectly fine and within your rights, but <i>legally</i> it should not be considered a religious institution at all.

05-9-2011 at 8:59 PM

I think I've stated this before, but I'm a man who can't marry his girlfriend of seven years. I live my daily life as a male. I can't marry her because I'm transgender and, as of right now, my birth cert and ID card have great big F's in the gender marker area. I'm also a bisexual but that has no real bearing on this.<br /> <br /> I proposed to my girlfriend <i>several years ago</i> and I still can't marry her because to a lot of people with strange beliefs I'm just technically a big ol' creepy <i>homosexual deviant</i> who shouldn't have the basic human right of marriage.<br /> <br /> Regarding straight up gays and other bisexuals marrying same-sex? Of course I support it.

05-9-2011 at 4:46 AM

I don't like the whole "gays have gay kids!" thing. I'm gay yet my dad isn't gay and my mom wasn't lesbian and <i>their</i> parents weren't gay or lesbian and <i>their</i> parents weren't gay or lesbian and etc etc.

05-9-2011 at 1:15 AM

"but won't they have gay kids?"<br /> <br /> Just like how straight people only have straight kids.<br /> <br /> Alc, your post is full of yummy quotes. xD

05-9-2011 at 12:47 AM

My opinion:<br /> <br /> Yes, they do deserve to have the same rights and benefits that heterosexuals get. I think that it is wrong for the government, or people, sometimes, to discrimnate against a person because they love someone of the same sex. <br /> <br /> I honestly can't find a single reason as to why they shouldn't be allowed to marry. And I'm not talking about religions reasons. I'm sick of hearing the same old "but won't they have gay kids?" and "it's not right," or "we need to defend the marriage system we have now." If more than half of the marriages in the United States end in divorce, then what makes us say that heterosexual marriage is the way to go?<br /> <br /> ""How many gay people must God create before we accept that he wants them around?"<br /> -quote taken from a democratic lawmaker

05-8-2011 at 5:33 PM

it's straight up saying one belief gets more rights than the others.<br /> <br /> i dont quite understand what your trying to say here.

05-6-2011 at 3:18 AM

who are we to say what rights love deserves and doesn't deserve? state government can not Should not tell them that the love they feel for each other isn't as valuable or worthy. love is love. it's straight up saying one belief gets more rights than the others

04-19-2011 at 8:22 PM

Oh, I agree with same sex marriage being legal. I just think the terms should be swapped around a bit to avoid religious confusion and for people who don't want to be "married" per se. I don't understand why two long term, non-romantic friends can't be joined in a civil union for the same benefits as well, if they trust each other more than any other person.<br /> <br /> I didn't actually mean I'm against homosexuals marrying. If that's what that came out as, I want to make that a bit more clear.

04-19-2011 at 6:52 PM

As for my case about the following debate and reasons why same-sex marriage should be allowed. <br /> <br /> <b>1.</b> Even if a same-sex couple is in a civil union, it will be only recognized in a few states like Oregon and Washington. If they enter a state that doesn’t recognize civil unions, all the benefits of the union will be invalid in that state. <br /> <br /> Marriages on the other hand was universally known and recognized. For example: Oregon allows 17 year olds to marry while Washington doesn’t, but if the 17 year old newlyweds move up to Washington, it still recognizes the couple. However, civil unions are limited to a couple of states that recognize the union. We’re not even talking about the world recognition either. <br /> <br /> <b>2.</b> Civil Unions are not recognized by the government and cannot file for joint-tax returns. Married couples are. Civil Unions also aren’t eligible for tax breaks like married couples are. <br /> <br /> <b>3.</b> Compared to a married couple, Civil Unions have around 600 rights/benefits while Married couples have around 1,049 benefits/rights. To say a civil union is equal to marriage is an absolute lie. Even with the few rights Civil Unions have, some of them aren’t even protected and stated in number one, not even recognized by all the states in the USA or the world. <br /> <br /> <b>4.</b> It costs over thousands dollars in legal fees to have a civil union while only a simple marriage license costs less than a hundred. <br /> <br /> <b>5.</b> If a same-sex partner is seriously injured, the other partner may or may not have the right to be by their side in the hospital. There have been articles showing this discrimination when a partner has been seriously injured, or died in the hospital and their counterpart could not view them simply because they were a same-sex couple. As for a married couple, they could go in there, show they’re married, and immediately be beside their loved one. <br /> <br /> Civil Unions do not equal marriage and aren’t supporting them as married couples but more like a partnership with few benefits which is EXACTLY what they are. Same-sex marriages should be legalized and recognized in every state because civil unions don’t provide enough support for a couple who want to be together in a long term commitment. To discriminate against a couple because they’re of the same-sex, who love each other dearly, is no different than judging a person by the color of their skin. <br /> <br /> Giving the right for same-sex marriage to the less than 12% homosexual Americans (taken from polls) will not cause a catastrophic drop in population. It will not cause schools across the nation have to teach ‘homosexual’ marriage of any sort. For the people who worry about same-sex marriage being taught to younger kids should be worrying more about the music they learn and the internet than same-sex marriages which aren’t close to damaging as music or the internet without parental supervision. <br /> <br />