07-7-2011 at 3:00 AM

"It does not take a male/female couple to raise a child properly."<br /> No, it doesn't. What I said was that it takes a male and a female to <em>conceive</em> a child.

07-7-2011 at 3:00 AM

If everyone was gay, no one would have kids, and a long time into the future humans would die out.<br /> <br /> Sperm bank? Did they not take sperm from a man and put it in a woman? Of course they did. This is more evidence taht male/female couples are more logical than male/male or female/female.

07-7-2011 at 2:58 AM

"<br /> You as a gay supporter should understand the man who married a toaster, He loved it, and it's ok to marry something if you love it.<br /> <br /> It's okay to marry what you love, that's what i hear from a lot of gay supporters."<br /> <br /> Screw you. Do not dare compare me to those people. I love other people. Do not dare insult me like that, and do not insult that man either. He married the toaster because of a mental illness, don't you dare use him in such false and trivial manners. So what if I love other women? Does it hurt you? No. Does it hurt anyone? NO. So go on living your bigoted life and let me live my happy one with the woman I love.<br /> <br /> And it's okay to marry WHO you love, not WHAT you love. You are missing this critical distinction. Honestly, every post you make here makes the collective IQ of the world go down slowly. Normally, I try to be nice in debates. With ignorance like yours, I won't. You are directly insulting me in these comparisons, but worse...you are directly insulting many of my friends. And I won't stand for that.

07-7-2011 at 2:56 AM

I guess a man can marry a toaster if he really wants, not like the toaster will ever have any clue. I don't understand why someone would marry something that literally cannot love them back. Animals are NOT okay though because they cannot consent. Gays can consent, they willingly share their love with one another, so what is wrong with them getting married and expressing it that way? Denying them marriage isn't going to make them turn straight and start having kids. So why not allow it? <br /> <br /> <i>"Also, if gays continue to adopt orphaned children, there -may- not be such an adbundance of orphaned children in the future."</i><br /> <br /> There will never, ever be a shortage of unwanted children.

07-7-2011 at 2:55 AM

It does not take a male/female couple to raise a child properly. You might want to actually research these things. I know several people raised by gay couples, they turned out perfectly fine.<br /> <br /> Also, does that mean we should forbid single parents from continuing to raise their children? Should we take their children away because they cannot provide the male/female parenting system that you say is so important in life? My mom never married my father and I've turned out fine. I know a lot of people with divorced parents who turned out great. I'd actually say children raised by gay parents are better off then those of divorced families, because then the divorce can tear the child between the parents and the child can feel like it is their fault. Also, the other role model doesn't have to be from a parent. If you are raised by two men, the female role model can by your grandmother, or it can be a close friend of the family. They aren't going to be isolated for the first few years of their lives with just the two men so they don't know what a woman is. They'll have just as much love and opportunity as any child.

07-7-2011 at 2:52 AM

You as a gay supporter should understand the man who married a toaster, He loved it, and it's ok to marry something if you love it.<br /> <br /> It's okay to marry what you love, that's what i hear from a lot of gay supporters.

07-7-2011 at 2:49 AM

Also, if gays continue to adopt orphaned children, there -may- not be such an adbundance of orphaned children in the future.<br /> <br /> And if it takes a male in order for a lesbian to have a child artificially, that is just more proof that a male/female relationship is what was intended.

07-7-2011 at 2:47 AM

"<i>So let me get this straight. It's okay to marry ANYTHING if you love it. Dogs, cats, toasters? That's what I get from gays saying they should have the right to marry who or what they love</i>"<br /> <br /> Wow, I sure hope that was sarcastic. Gays should be able to legally marry others because BOTH can agree too it. It's consensual and that's what marriage is about. The commitment of yourself, your life, and your love with someone else who wants the same thing. Although... apparently it is legal to marry objects in some places. o.o<br /> <br /> Edit; Also not all species require a male to reproduce! Check out these <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2010/02/extra_chromosomes_allow_all-female_lizards_to_reproduce_with.php">lizards</a>.

07-7-2011 at 2:47 AM

"And now you just point false accusations at me?"<br /> <br /> Sorry, I apologize., That was someone else being that ignorant. But you should have read the posts before mine, then. Not everything in my post was directed at you.<br /> <br /> "<br /> So let me get this straight. It's okay to marry ANYTHING if you love it. Dogs, cats, toasters? That's what I get from gays saying they should have the right to marry who or what they love."<br /> <br /> See. I had absolutely no respect for you already. Is it possible to have negative respect for someone? I DESPISE people who say this. I had to put up with this crap from a pastor. See, there's a difference. Homosexuality isn't a mental disorder. Having an attraction that strong to inanimate objects and other animal species is. See, here's the thing. Humans can return those feelings of love. That's what makes a marriage. Two people (adults) who love each other. Plain and simple. A man can love a man just as much as some men can love a woman. Our love is no lesser than your love. And to think so is just foolish ignorance. Live my life and see what happens. My feelings for women aren't faked or the result of a disorder.

07-7-2011 at 2:45 AM

"In my opinion, there was something mentally wrong with thoes animals."<br /> That honestly is not my quote.

07-7-2011 at 2:43 AM

So let me get this straight. It's okay to marry ANYTHING if you love it. Dogs, cats, toasters? That's what I get from gays saying they should have the right to marry who or what they love.

07-7-2011 at 2:43 AM

And now you just point false accusations at me?<br /> <br /> As I have said many times before: I don't hate LGBTs. I don't see them as lesser than I. I don't think that they have any sort of illness. They are no lesser or no greater than straights.

07-7-2011 at 2:40 AM

"I never said that and I am not trying to insult anyone."<br /> <br /> <br /> ....Really? You never said that?<br /> <br /> "In my opinion, there was something mentally wrong with thoes animals."<br /> <br /> Humans are animalls, so....yeah. you did.

07-7-2011 at 2:39 AM

No, you didn't say that. You didn't have to. By denying us the simple right to marry the ones we love, and to get all the legal benefits that come with said marriage, you are classifying our love as lower than yours. You don't have to say it. It's clear in the fact that you don't support gay marriage. You don't have to hate gays, but you do view us as less. You don't think that we deserve the same rights as you (to marry the ones we love), and therefore are lower than you.<br /> <br /> And don't even try that "you have the right to marry the opposite sex" bullcrap again. That's not what marriage is about. It's about LOVE. And we can't force ourselves to love someone. It just happens. And for homosexuals, it just happens to people who happen to be of the same sex. It is still love.

07-7-2011 at 2:38 AM

<em>"So homosexuality is a mental illness now? I can't even begin to describe how just plain insulting that is."</em><br /> I never said that and I am not trying to insult anyone.

07-7-2011 at 2:34 AM

<em>"Seriously, give me one reason, one good logical reason that gays should be treated as second-class citizens. Why are you, as a presumably straight person, more of a person than me, a bisexual genderqueer? Why is your love more valid than mine? Answer me that. Why are you allowed to marry who you love, but I may not be?"</em><br /> <br /> (Even though this question was not particularly aimed at me, I'll answer it.)<br /> I was not at all ever saying that LGBTs are "lower class citizens" or that their "love was not valid". Where have I ever said that? If you insist that I think of LGBTs that way, then show me proof. I say what I mean, and I most certainly have not said that in a round-about way. If I was going to say that (which I am not), then I would have said it straight up. I have only stated that I do NOT hate LGBTs, but I have not stated that I hate LGBTs or that I think they're sick freaks of nature or anything of the like. Ever.

07-7-2011 at 2:34 AM

Also, saying this again, maybe to get it through your thick skulls: IT IS NOT A CHOICE. Thought caps would clear it up. I can't choose to be straight anymore than I can choose to be blue.

07-7-2011 at 2:32 AM

Gays can have kids via adoption if they don't want/can't have their own and In vitro fertilisation is an option if they are female. I know several lesbians who have their own kids. Marriage isn't about having babies, marriage is about being with the person you love.<br /> <br /> Not to mention the world is in no shortage of babies by any means. In fact, there are so many babies that some of them are being dumped on the orphanage doorsteps like an annoying ex. Plus, allowing gay marriage isn't going to cause everybody to go gay and stop having babies. They are ALREADY gay and that isn't going to change, so why deny them the basic human right to marry the person you love?<br /><br /> Edit; Woo, several posts while I was typing mine up. x.x<br /> <br /> <i>"Also invalid. Gay couples can adopt one of the thousands upon thousands of children abandoned in the flawed foster care system. Add into the fact that the world is overpopulated as it is. Also, if a gay couple can't marry because they can't produce children, should we not allow elderly couples to marry? What about infertile couples? Are they less of people because they can't have kids?"</i><br /> <br /> Well, guess I can't get married now either, seeing as I am straight but never want kids. Bummer dude. :&lt;

07-7-2011 at 2:30 AM

Also invalid. Gay couples can adopt one of the thousands upon thousands of children abandoned in the flawed foster care system. Add into the fact that the world is overpopulated as it is. Also, if a gay couple can't marry because they can't produce children, should we not allow elderly couples to marry? What about infertile couples? Are they less of people because they can't have kids? Also, marriage isn't about producing kids. It isn't a requirement that if you get married, you MUST have kids. I won't have kids, whether I marry a man or a woman, except for the very small possibility of adopting.<br /> <br /> ....So homosexuality is a mental illness now? I can't even begin to describe how just plain insulting that is. And also, those animals were not suffering from mental illness. Black swans, for example. Most of them are homosexual and they are thriving fine. A male mates with a female just for the eggs, then chases her off so that him and his MALE partner can hatch and raise the young. Studies of black swans show that young raised by male/male couples do MUCH better than young raised by male/female couples. And in the bonobo species, if you aren't bisexual, you aren't going to make it. Sex is one of their main points of communication, as they are a more peaceful ape species. When I've observed bonobos, they are almost always doing something sexual, and it didn't matter whether it was male or female. Also, your mental illness status on homosexuality? Invalid as well, considering all major psychiatric associations have said that homosexuality is natural and normal, and cannot be changed.<br /> <br /> Got anything else you want to try? Cause those two arguments were false and invalid as well. There are NO good arguments against gay marriage. At least, I've never heard one. And I've been partaking in gay rights debates for years and have done plenty of research. There is no good, logical reason out there that Mary shouldn't be able to marry Sue in the same way that Bill can marry Joy.<br /> <br /> Also, DADT was just apparently called unconstitutional and can no longer be enforced. Strike one up for the gays, and the gays have one more up on the bigots.

07-7-2011 at 2:27 AM

Ok, well, I'm just going to sum up my opinions on gay marriage and gays in general.<br /> <br /> Let me just start by saying that I can understand that pro-gay marriage people probably think: you cannot chose your sexuality or gender position, gay people are being denied their rights to be happy and marry whoever they want to.<br /> I could see how that would make sense, but that isn't going to make me change my mind.<br /> <br /> And to answer back to some comments... I'm not an idiot. Just because I don't accept your way of thinking and I don't agree to your side of the argument does NOT make me any more or less smart than you. You saying that is like me saying that LGBTs are all loveable personed and they have something wrong in their brains that is causing them to be attracted to people of the same sex. And no, I do not in any way believe that the whole world will turn gay. I was just trying to make a point.<br /> <br /> So here we go. My reasons for not supporting LGBTs or gay marriage is not because I'm a cruel person or because I have such a hate for homosexuals. That's about as far from the truth as it gets. My reasoning is:<br /> -Homosexuality is considered sin in some religions (mine included).<br /> -Homosexuality is not what was intended in nature. Proof of this is that a <em>male and female</em> of the same species are required to reproduce. For example, you could not by any means mate a male dog with another male dog or a female dog with another female dog and expect puppies. Only if you mated a male and female dog would they be able to have puppies.<br /> -I believe that it is a choice -- not a simple choice -- but still a choice, to be homosexual. In fact, one of my relatives was a lesbian all her life, and then what do you know, she happily married a man and even had children with him. They are still to this day living together. If you "can't chose your sexuality any more than you can choose your eye color", then how can your sexuality change? If sexuality is some trait that you are born with, then this must not have been possible, but it did happen.<br /> -And as I have said before, the point of a natural life is to help your species survive. Homosexuals cannot reproduce. Therefore, a species with mostly/only homosexuals would not survive.<br /> (And just to be clear, the last part was not expected by me to be true or to ever become true. I thought it went without saying that it was just an exaggeration to make a point.)<br /> <br /> And lastly, I don't hate or bash LGBTs. I just do not support it because of my beliefs. I most certainly WILL consider your half of the argument and make my best attempt to understand it. But if you will not let me have my opinion without pointing fingers and calling me mean, cruel, hateful, ignorant, etc, then there really is no debate here. I would have not made this topic in the debate section if I was not open-minded enough to allow debate on this situation.