07-21-2012 at 4:23 PM

I'm simply responding to you in the manner you started with. If my being 'sarcastic' bothers you, try reading your posts from the perspective of someone who likes Pit Bulls and see what <i>you</i> come off as. You say you hate pit bulls, fine. That's your right, but try being more sensitive to those who own and love them.

07-21-2012 at 4:23 PM

xD Calling people sarcastic jerks is not debating, get outta here. <br /> <br /> Anyway, no input from me, I don't mind pits, they're far from my favorite breed, banning breeds is absolutely ridiculous imo, although if this is turning into a trashy argument, I'd love to toss a few words in :o<br /> <br /> Crap, knew I forgot something!<br /> <br /> Regarding not believing sources without finding something wrong with them, though it's off topic for this debate, I find it much more ignorant to simply find one site and mention it alone, apparently without looking at any contradictory views or any sort of proof or correction. But hey. You must know best, since you don't like pits, right? <br /> <br /> xoxo<br /> Fleetsies.

07-21-2012 at 4:14 PM

Also Shadow, I ask ONE AGAIN that you stop being such a sarcastic jerk. Nobody wants to listen to you when ou act like that. You could have simply said "Actually, this is why I disagree with this" which is what you do in debates. I was wrong on that fact, but I still hold my position. If your going to be like that, I have no interest debating with you. This is the last time I will say so.

07-21-2012 at 4:10 PM

Wow, I find it sad that you can no longer rely on sources without something being wrong with them.

07-21-2012 at 4:03 PM

I suggest you do more research into dogsbite.com before you go quoting it like its full of facts.<br /> <br /> <a href= http://pitbulletinlegalnews.com/pro-bsl-experts/dogbiteorg/116-dogsbiteorg-dogbite-qstatisticsq-the-fox-guarding-the-henhouse>Link</a>

07-21-2012 at 3:32 PM

"Pit Bulls are a breed that are simply born (because of generations and generations of breeding for dog-aggression) "mean" to other dogs."<br /> <br /> And I agree with you. But what I'm getting at is people saying that ALL pitbulls are sweet, loving, kind, loyal. Yes, and I bet SOME are. But you can't put that label on ALL Pit Bulls, like I have been seeing lately. I understand that yes, some pitbulls are treated unfairly, and as I've said before, I fully acknowlegde and agree that it is the HUMANS fault for raising them up the ways that they have. But, on the other hand, Pit Bulls have bitten and killed people MORE than other dogs.<br /> <br /> In 2007:<br /> # Of GSD Bites doing Bodily Harm: 63<br /> # Of Doberman: 11<br /> # Of Rottweiler: 409<br /> # Of Pit Bull: 1110<br /> --<br /> "Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period. The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13)."<br /> <br /> Shadow, you are saying that all 'mean' (as Clayton as reffering it as :3) Pit Bulls simply fell into the hands of abuse. The dog that my aunt was bitten by was raised in a home with 3 children and a loving couple. Also, If you will take a moment to read my previous posts, I stated that I have changed my mind about extincting all Pit Bulls.<br /> <br />

07-21-2012 at 3:05 PM

I'm not upset that you disagree. I fully understand that some people dislike a breed and I respect that. What I don't respect is how you came into this debate, or how you react when anyone points out the good in the breed. I don't own a pit bull and have no desire to own one, frankly anything terrier isn't for me. But I don't wish the breed gone.<br /> But that's enough of that. This is getting off topic and frankly 'debating' with people who don't want to hear it is a waste of time.<br /> <br /> Pit bulls aren't bred to 'bathe in blood', they aren't monsters, they aren't demons. They're a powerful, amazing breed that often ends up in hands that abuse, misguide and mistreat them. Pit Bulls deserve more sympathy and support than they do hate. And that's all I have left to say on the subject.

07-21-2012 at 2:59 PM

Oh of course, and I do definitely agree with some dogs simply "being born mean" (although I don't use the term "mean" because I don't believe that animals have the capability to understand "mean". I prefer the terms "human-aggressive" and "dog-aggressive")<br /> Pit Bulls are a breed that are simply born (because of generations and generations of breeding for dog-aggression) "mean" to other dogs. However, this is not the fault of the Pit Bull, because they don't selectively breed themselves for aggression, they just do what they've been taught, bred and trained to do. To me, that is admirable of the breed.<br /> Despite going through the trauma, pain, torture, neglect and abuse that they suffer at the hands of abusers and dogfighters, they will continue to do it if the owner tells them to, and they will never bite the owner, despite possessing the ability to shatter every bone in their body.

07-21-2012 at 2:50 PM

Shadow, You're just upset because I'm disagreeing with everybody else in this debate. Please, relax a little.<br /> <br /> Clayton, I've heard about BSL taking place in some states. I guess now that I consider that people can fall in love as easily with a Bully as I can a Shepherd, I can part ways with my statement of 'extincting' the breed. <br /> <br /> Also, I 100% agree with the fact that a German Shepherd would be put on BSL because of their nature. After all, German Shepherds are ranked on the top 5 most dangerous dog lists many times.<br /> <br /> Would you agree to dogs having their own personalities?

07-21-2012 at 2:14 PM

Yeah. The difference between a debate and an argument is the following; debates are more mature, both sides support their side of the argument with sources/evidence/proof. It's a bit of "I disagree with you, and here is some informative links as to why". Arguments are full of insults, little to no proof besides "it's my opinion", name-calling, etc.<br /> <br /> If you join a debate, expect to be disagreed with, you cannot say "it's my opinion, this is a debate" and expect it to be a be-all end-all to anybody replying to your post with "well, your point about ___ is a bit incorrect, here's why". People who are interested in having a serious debate about an issue dislike it when people insult the others opinion and don't provide any proof to why they believe this.<br /> <br /> Now, back to the BSL issue.<br /> In my city, BSL was put into effect a few years ago. Pit Bulls and "related breeds" were banned, however, some dogs are grandfathered by the law, meaning that if they were born before the ban was put into place (and the owner can provide PROOF) then they get off with being allowed to continue owning the dog.. however, it must be muzzled at all times when not inside the house (and under control).<br /> Does the ban stop Pit Bull owners from owning these dogs? Hah! Not a chance. I know people who own pure-bred Pit Bulls even though owning the breed is illegal. <br /> BSL doesn't work, plain and simple.. it just sends people into hiding with their dogs. The dogs I'm talking about? The owner has had the police called on em numerous times, but when they come around, they send the dog to a friends' house :P<br /> BSL and making Pit Bulls/dog-fighting illegal also doesn't stop dog-fighters, for the same reason. Dog-fighters are extremely secretive and can own yards full of dogs and never get caught for dog-fighting.

07-21-2012 at 2:03 PM

" I feel that you all think i am disrespecting the breed."<br /> <br /> You said you'd like to be rid of the breed. And that they are 'menaces' Excuse us for taking that exactly how it sounds.<br /> And I didn't think bashing a breed was debating to begin with. Either way, Clayton's post summed up basically all that needed to be said on that.

07-21-2012 at 1:41 PM

Yes, I know that. All of you are just saying the same thing over and over again. How about some new facts? I STILL dislike them either way, even if they are angels.

07-21-2012 at 1:01 PM

Any dog on Earth has the capability to maul a human or animal. This is actually why GSDs are on the BSL list, there have been numerous GSD attacks on humans.<br /> <br /> <i>"I don't feel like I ever made a statement to make any of you believe that I made Shepeherds out to be better than pitbulls."</i><br /> - Two, I know German Shepherds can be agressive. But that's not what they were bred solely to do, unlike pitbulls. (Actually, GSDs are common as guard dogs, where aggression is needed.)<br /> - German Shepherds can do many things, ranking very high in intelligance. They can be used as Police Dogs, Therapy Dogs, Protection Dogs, Service Dogs, Narcotic Dogs, and Search and Rescue dogs. Who do you see on the news everyday? German Shepherds or Pitbulls? That's because German Shepherds weren't bred to bathe in blood like Pit Bulls are.<br /> <br /> Human-aggression in Pit Bulls is not only not a desired trait (by RESPONSIBLE Pit Bull breeders and even serious dogfighters) but it's also not a natural one.<br /> Pit Bulls were never bred to be human-aggressive, they were bred to be dog-aggressive, there is a massive difference.<br /> The people who encourage human-aggression in Pit Bulls are the "tough guys" and the street dogfighters who don't care about their dogs and breeding further than "my dog can whoop yours".

07-21-2012 at 10:57 AM

Thank you Clay, for teaching me something I didn't know, however I feel that you all think i am disrespecting the breed. I don't think that the dog is at fault at all, I just don't like them. Some people don't like German Shepherd, others don't like Chihuahaus. I don't like Pits, PLUS I've had a personal experience where my aunt had her arm ripped to shreds by one, so that also has a very big part in why I don't like them, and I fear them very much so. I am not comfortable around them, and i wouldn't be comfortable having one being my therapy dog. Just like some people don't like Shepherds, and I respect that. Quite honsestly, I don't feel like I ever made a statement to make any of you believe that I made Shepeherds out to be better than pitbulls.

07-20-2012 at 10:37 PM

<i>" German Shepherds can do many things, ranking very high in intelligance. They can be used as Police Dogs, Therapy Dogs, Protection Dogs, Service Dogs, Narcotic Dogs, and Search and Rescue dogs."</i><br /> <br /> Here's an awesome site about the versatile Pit Bull breed: <a href="http://www.workingpitbull.com/activities.htm">[LINK]</a><br /> - Pit Bull narcotic police dog: <a href="http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/396919_10151115265803185_1587231238_n.jpg">[LINK]</a><br /> - Ex-Michael Vick fighting dog turned into therapy dog: <a href="http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/causes/uploads/2011/12/picresized_1324507437_leoschool21.jpg">[LINK]</a><br /> - Bandog Dread, an amazing protection, French Ring, Schutzhund, duck-herding, weight-pulling, obedience trial Pit Bull: <a href="http://www.workingpitbull.com/New%20Site%202005/dread.htm">[LINK]</a><br /> - Search and rescue Pit Bull: <a href="http://pawsitivelypitbulls.blogspot.ca/2009/02/hardworking-pit-bulls-buck-bad-rap.html">[LINK]</a><br /> <br /> Pit Bulls are an all-around working dog, they can and will do any job you throw at them.<br /> French Ring, Schutzhund, agility, herding, S&R, narcotics, general police work (one Pit was removed from my city during the BSL slam and was sent to Washington and now works with the police force :) ), weight-pulling, dock-diving, obedience, flyball, hog-catching, scent-trailing, etc etc etc anything you throw at em. I do believe there is a "SuperDog" that is a Pit Bull, as well.<br /> <br /> <i>"But that's not what they were bred solely to do, unlike pitbulls."</i><br /> Incorrect.<br /> The American Pit Bull Terrier was once just called the "Bulldog" or "Bull and Terrier" (because it was a mixture of a variety of bulldogs and terriers) it was used to keep cattle together for butchers (kinda like a GSD keeping a flock together). Sick people decided they would pit a dog against a bull in a bloodsport, soon, this was outlawed. They then moved onto the legal alternative, dog vs dog. This became outlawed in the majority of places, but as mostly went underground and that is where we get the aggressive dogs. Morons who think that pitting dog vs dog is a-okay, backyard breeders who breed without paying attention to temperament, and the dudes who buy APBT to look tough (and encourage them to act vicious against humans. These are the dogs who escape and attack people)<br /> <br /> Speaking from experience, I live in a city where BSL is put into effect. GSDs <b>are considered a dangerous breed by BSL</b>, it's just a fact. Certain apartments and whatnot sometimes won't allow you if you own a restricted or "dangerous" breed. Other "dangerous breeds" include huskies, rottweilers, dobermans, chows, tosa inu, APBT, Amstaff, Staff, Dogo Argentino, Shar Pei, etc etc. (and any dog breeds that even LOOK like these breeds)<br /> This is a sign in my city at a dog park: <a href="http://i48.tinypic.com/nxm87a.jpg">[LINK]</a><br /> <br /> Also guys, please keep it civil and <b>do not</b> insult other users because of the breed they prefer or own. There is a difference between a debate and an argument.

07-20-2012 at 8:32 PM

"German Shepherd Dogs are also being targeted by bans because they are just as well known for being 'aggressive' and 'biters' as any bully breed. Betcha don't want that happening. I know in my area, most apartments won't take German Shepherds, not because they're big either. So don't think it's okay to 'be rid' of one breed. Because hey, if they manage to get rid of pitbulls they'll just move on down the list! Bye Dobermans, Rotts, Mastiffs, Chows, Akitas, your German Shepherds and it goes on. A dog is a dog is a dog, in the proper hands, they're all as sweet as the next. It is irresponsible owners who need to be pursued. <br /> Banning a breed is complete and utter nonsense and it will not solve anything in the long run.<br /> Having a bad experience does not justify the slander of an entire breed. I had a bad run in with a Bull Terrier and that does not give me an excuse to want to breed gone."<br /> <br /> I'm sorry, but I would like it if you stop reffering as to 'My' German Shepherds. I favor them just like you favor your pit bulls, so let's not get ugly.<br /> Two, I know German Shepherds can be agressive. But that's not what they were bred solely to do, unlike pitbulls. German Shepherds can do many things, ranking very high in intelligance. They can be used as Police Dogs, Therapy Dogs, Protection Dogs, Service Dogs, Narcotic Dogs, and Search and Rescue dogs. Who do you see on the news everyday? German Shepherds or Pitbulls? That's because German Shepherds weren't bred to bathe in blood like Pit Bulls are. I'm not saying it's their fault, because it's not, and I feel horrible for them, but what if your baby was killed by one? What are you going to say? "That baby shouldn't of pulled that dog's tail." Its a BABY. <br /> <br /> Like I said, I am stating MY opinions, and wasn't doing so rudely, unlike you users, so unless you are going to be civil, don't even bother because I won't acknowledge you.<br /> <br />

07-20-2012 at 5:02 PM

"I just don't like pit bulls. Never have. For one, I don't think that they are very attractive at all. That's just an opinions though.<br /> Two, I think that stupid people own them. My aunt had her arm ripped to shreds by a somebodie's pitbull who had ran away. Her husband shot it. The dog belong to a family of 3 children. All my aunt did was make an arm jesture like 'Get outta here' to it, because that's what she does with her dogs, and he charged her. I hate them. They are menaces, yes, some are nice and sweet and whatever, but they are agressive and can turn at any moment. I think personally all pit bulls should be spayed and nuetered so we can just get rid of the breed. Bash me all you want, but this is a debate."<br /> <br /> <br /> German Shepherd Dogs are also being targeted by bans because they are just as well known for being 'aggressive' and 'biters' as any bully breed. Betcha don't want that happening. I know in my area, most apartments won't take German Shepherds, not because they're big either. So don't think it's okay to 'be rid' of one breed. Because hey, if they manage to get rid of pitbulls they'll just move on down the list! Bye Dobermans, Rotts, Mastiffs, Chows, Akitas, your German Shepherds and it goes on. A dog is a dog is a dog, in the proper hands, they're all as sweet as the next. It is irresponsible owners who need to be pursued. <br /> Banning a breed is complete and utter nonsense and it will not solve anything in the long run.<br /> Having a bad experience does not justify the slander of an entire breed. I had a bad run in with a Bull Terrier and that does not give me an excuse to want to breed gone.

07-20-2012 at 3:24 PM

Bottom line, you can't blame a breed. It's the owner's fault, always. 100%<br /> <br /> Anyway, I'll partake in this discussion. Pit Bulls were an incredibly popular family dog for a long while, up until 15-20 years ago. In the UKC description of the breed:<br /> <i>APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable.</i><br /> <br /> Now you may be saying 'NO WAY, now they're fighting dogs!'<br /> <br /> But, er, no. At this point, people are using more aggressive breeds to fight with. Even if they do use APBTs, do you realize how many will not fight? An incredibly small amount of APBT/fighting dogs in general will properly fight. The dogs that will not fight are either shot or used as 'bait dogs' to teach the small, small percentages of dogs that will fight to kill other dogs.<br /> <br /> APBTs are great with children because they were originally bred to work with bulls, and grab the nose and not let go no matter what. Because of this, their pain tolerance is incredibly high, so they are better than most breeds (including all those breeds you consider 'token family dogs' such as Goldens and Labs) at having their ears and tails pulled without reacting. They have a naturally sweet disposition, they are great dogs with people. I would recommend them for families with children over many, many breeds, including Labrador Retrievers. <br /> <br /> Even if they are used as fighting dogs, the first thing they learn is that their handler, and all the people in the ring, are off limits. They need to be able to be in the middle of fighting a dog, and be pulled off by a human without whirling around and biting them.<br /> <br /> This takes a large amount of self control; These dogs have been bred to not have any aggression towards humans when in a fighting pit which contains a surrounding crowd, and the owners of the dogs in the pit with the fighting dogs.<br /> <br /> Furthermore, all those 'Pit bull attacks' on children and adults? Media people mis-report labrador, golden retriever, etc. breed attacks for pit bull attacks because this makes the news. There are so many bites/attacks/deaths that go reported as a Pit Bull when it was an entirely different breed. But people want there to be one single answer, and they want the answer to be BSL.<br /> <br /> You don't get to hear about all the reported Dachschund bites because they're not exciting and the damage isn't as severe! But Dachschunds have the most REPORTED bites. That means the bite is bad enough that someone actually came forward and said something. They're incredibly aggressive towards children. Yet no one has but them on the BSL? Why?<br /> <br /> I'd like to finish this post by saying this:<br /> This problem stems from the abuse of animals. Mis-treated, tied up a dog house all day, starved, under socialized dogs will bite and attack people. The kind of dog that kills someone is not the kind of dog you see someone walking down the street with. It's the dog tied up in a backyard, a child wants to go see the dog, and something terrible happens. Dog related deaths/severe attacks almost always happen on private property when someone trespasses.<br /> <br /> You cannot blame a breed. Pit Bulls are the go-to dog for many poor people since they are easy to come by and you can get one for very cheap. The more un-trained dogs of any breed, the more bites you would get. That's just how it goes. <br /> <br /> I am still astounded by BSL, people trying to pretend pit bulls are monsters, etc.<br /> The whole thing is so blown up, nonfactual, and preposterous it is mind blowing.

07-20-2012 at 2:51 PM

Why don't we just get rid of German Shepherds then? They attack people too. They are noted as one of the dogs who attack people the most. Why don't we just spay and neuter them too? Rottweiler's too, yeah. I don't see why we should get rid of a breed because stupid people own them. I own a Pitbull and the only time she's bit someone is because she missed a ball and the guy was being an idiot. He was teasing my dog with a football and I told him not to but he kept on doing it and he got bit. And from that day forward I told him to leave and don't come back because he's an idiot. My dog is really nice, and she's not a big fat ugly Pit Bull either, she's quite small. She's 2 years old and she is still only like 1 1/2 feet tall. And my dog is also really protective though. But she has more bark than bite. She'll bark at someone but won't bite unless they were trying to kill me or hurt me or something. She's an excellent guard dog. But that's just my dog. Some pits are horrible, yes I agree with that but that's just because some idiot never trained it or bred two aggressive dogs. Personally, I live in a neighbourhood that has at least 4 other pits, they've gotten out before when I was on my bike because the owners are stupid but they never attack. I've been attacked by a chihuahua and a lab before but never a pitbull. So, yeah. I don't know.

07-20-2012 at 2:21 PM

I just don't like pit bulls. Never have. For one, I don't think that they are very attractive at all. That's just an opinions though.<br /> Two, I think that stupid people own them. My aunt had her arm ripped to shreds by a somebodie's pitbull who had ran away. Her husband shot it. The dog belong to a family of 3 children. All my aunt did was make an arm jesture like 'Get outta here' to it, because that's what she does with her dogs, and he charged her. I hate them. They are menaces, yes, some are nice and sweet and whatever, but they are agressive and can turn at any moment. I think personally all pit bulls should be spayed and nuetered so we can just get rid of the breed. Bash me all you want, but this is a debate.