08-8-2013 at 8:56 AM

As a reply to some comments I've seen recently:<br /> <br /> There are more than one option, we don't have to put the dog's TP to the Cap limit. You can choose to leave your dog at it's over cap TP and instead choose to have the dog untrialable and unsellable.<br /> <br /> And to make an argument about the trialing part of this:<br /> At one point in time, it would not have been an issue to make the dog untriable, the dogs would eventually age out of the trials and that would be that. With time rewinders, this changes, as you can keep your dog young forever and trial it forever. It is here that leaving the dogs over the cap and able to trial becomes unfair to continue doing. Would you feel it okay if you went up against Rosencrown every week for the next two years? Next four? You would always lose. Always. That's a lot of money you'd lose just due to her owner having a time rewinder and 40+ aviator caps when we allowed stacking. This is the reason we would make dogs - if we left them over the cap - untrialable. If trialing your dogs is more important than the boost you gave in TP, then we can go the route of lowering the cap.<br /> <br /> This is why we put up both of these options, we were not sure if you would prefer having the status of these over the cap dogs - even untrialable and unsellable - or if you would prefer to have a trialable dog that is no longer over the cap.<br /> <br /> As for this argument on unfair to new players:<br /> Our decision to do this wasn't based on the idea that it's unfair to new players. It was based on the fact it's a game breaker. As I said before, with both time rewinders and the ability to stack your aviator caps forever and ever, some people will always dominate trials with the same dog forever. Rosencrown will forever be #1 no matter how hard others try. <br /> <br /> This game is about Agility, mostly focused on trialing and secondarily on breeding. (Or will be once again once we have our new system up.) If Rosencrown has no fair competition, then it removes the point of trialing. Why would I trial when I know I can never have the best dog? <br /> <br /> Back in the day, the Top Dawgs board used to be a source of pride and competition for players. I used to check it every day. I had the number one dog for GSDs for awhile when they first came out. I've been the first person to break TP goals for GSDs with a breeding partner, again putting my dogs at #1 on the list.<br /> <br /> <b>This is a deep source of pride for me</b> I want others to have that pride. But nobody can have that, as the top dawgs board is dominated by over the capped dogs that are near impossible to loosen from their ranked hold.<br /> <br /> This change means that new players will find competition in trials again, and will find pride in fighting for a top trialer prize. That is why I agreed to this change, even with my own over the capped dog.

08-8-2013 at 7:35 AM

@AmandaRose, i was replying to something larth said about it being unfair to newer members who do not have access to such items C: Merely pointing out that some older members also don't have those items and worked hard to get them. Anybody can get the items, you just have to save up for it.

08-8-2013 at 7:17 AM

I think a few of you are forgetting that Robyn intentionally left aviator caps to stack. If you mentioned it, I apologize for not noticing!<br /> <br /> The only thing that should be fixed - in my opinion - is that dogs who are 8999.91 base TP should not exceed up to 9000 TP (which is .09 they can get with items, yay!). <br /> Think about those who use aviator caps for different reasons. Some - I know a few do - use the caps to get their low TP dogs (customs/foundies) to higher TPs for breeding. BUT, there could always be a LIMIT to the amount of caps that can be stacked on a dog. Such as, 3 caps can be stacked on one at a time.<br /> This makes the caps not entirely useless to some.

08-8-2013 at 4:31 AM

They were gonna get changed anyways due to a mistake. They didn't know how big of a problem it is today.

08-8-2013 at 4:30 AM

Amanda, if they limit the cap to 9000, fine. <br /> <br /> Then the Aviator caps don't have to be changed, then, do they?

08-8-2013 at 4:22 AM

If they fix the trail system then it gonna take a long time and they are fixing trailing already. No one is complaining about anything if people can't train capped dogs then they shouldn't or if it's to slow then they shouldn't and some people can still trail dogs with 500 TP and less and still make a good amount if they have a lot of dogs. And yeah people did work very very hard I know I spent 30 bones and more, And I know I spent over 1 mill ala cash for trailing items,and dogs etc. But I still think they that the cap limit should be 9000.

08-8-2013 at 4:14 AM

It seems that the big issue you are trying to address is over the cap dogs and the trial system.<br /> <br /> If you take away the ability to allow dogs to get over the cap, then the aviator cap issue is a non issue.<br /> <br /> As I said on the news post, Aviator caps are used for other things as well.<br /> <br /> Where would you draw the line?<br /> <br /> Next people will complain that they cannot train their dogs fast enough, so they cannot trial as much.<br /> <br /> Would you then cap dog slots and training sessions?<br /> <br /> It is a long slippery slope to "equalize".<br /> <br /> Some are willing to work hard for what they have accomplished.<br /> <br /> I remember saving for weeks just to get a scholar collar. I never complained that it took forever. I never begrudged those that already had one.<br /> <br /> Leave the caps as is, and fix the trial system.<br /> <br /> You can cap trial TP at 8999.91 (but then you will STILL have people complaining about capped dogs in their trials, because they can't train a capped dog, or they can't afford a capped dog, etc).<br /> <br /> You can always have "X" trials. Extreme trials for dogs over 8000 TP. Don't take away what people have worked months for. Give them another place to "play".

08-8-2013 at 3:56 AM

Dwarf: It's not new players that are saying it. I am not new and yes it would be nice to have a cap and I didn't say anything once about wanting this to change I do have over capped dogs but it did take forever to get them over capped and time etc but the problem was suppost to be fixed anyways so it's not just new players who want it. I think it's gone overboard because it's not fair at trails anymore because not everybody can get and caps to boost up TP like me and it's not very fair for others that can't get any either. Either way they were gonna fix it and have been talking about it for a long time so it's no ones fault ala wants to make the change there was no polls about the change so it means no new players have voted to change it, it was gonna get fixed sooner or later.

08-8-2013 at 3:23 AM

I have to say I'm glad it is addressed. However... <br /> <br /> This isn't the first time changes happen that cost people bones. It happened to me on a much smaller scale when some CAs were just deleted like that, and I never got all the bones I spent on them back from their creators. <br /> <br /> This, now, for those who put time and effort and especially real money into those dogs, is a real bad thing to happen ( I don't have an over the cap dog, and didn't plan to make one).<br /> <br /> I understand that you can't always foresee what the future will bring, especially in games such as this one. Dynamics change a lot. <br /> <br /> Maybe the idea of leaving the TP for breeding purposes would be fine as long as there are no more dogs who can go over the cap. Maybe you could also ignore the existing trialers for now because, as mentioned, they blow through trials quickly. Once no other dog can go over the cap, the problem should have fixed itself.<br /> <br />

08-8-2013 at 1:50 AM

I didn't read the whole thread, but i'm very disappointed if this change will go through. The comment of 'it's unfair to newer players who don't have the items' - I didn't have these items a month ago. I worked my bum off on offsite trades to get two aviator caps and am still working on getting more. I wouldn't be very pleased if they would turn out to be useless after all that work i put into it. Everybody can get those items if they work hard and are patient.<br /> <br /> It also goes the same for the people who bought their caps for bones. They either worked for bones or bought them and it would be a huge waste of time (and money) if the caps suddenly wouldn't be stack-able- that's not what you bought them for.<br /> <br /> I kinda agree with what rav said. Why not up the TP cap to 15k and leave the caps stack-able. Make it so that capped dogs cannot exceed the cap, so it will not train already maxed stats. I think that would solve the biggest problem.

08-8-2013 at 12:38 AM

Larth: Oh I see. I don't think anyone should be blamed, you didn't know that it was going to go this far.

08-8-2013 at 12:17 AM

Amanda: It was not a glitch. I concede that it was an oversight by the admins at the time. I believe myself and Jackdaw are the only ones still around, and I'm not even sure if Jack was even an admin at that point, so I'd be willing to take on the blame for not pushing for the change sooner.<br /> <br /> As it is though, we want to fix it. We want to do something that will reign in the overpowering of these items, reign in the crazy amount of game-breaking stat increases they cause, and get the site back to where things are more achievable (while still making it so you have to work for it, of course! ;P ).<br /> <br /> As it is... what's the point in breeding? If you can just make a custom dog, throw a few hundred caps on, give the dog a fawn and use time rewinders on it daily? Or do that to a dog you found that's perfect. There's no point if you can do that.<br /> <br /> Also, again I'll reiterate, speed and drive (as well as the other stats) did indeed have an impact on trial scores - just not as much as TP. Remember, we are reworking the trial system, and you don't know how that's going to work yet (which is completely revamped from the old one), so please don't make your decisions based on what the trials were like before.

08-7-2013 at 11:36 PM

Lexy no one is being punished for anything. (Nobody did anything wrong so why would anybody get punished).It was a glitch they didn't think it was a problem. And I have over capped dogs my self I have invested my bones ala cash for them and the companions as well. All ala is trying to do is fix the glitch and make it fair for others. And trailing is not very fun for others nor is it fair for others and some people wont trail because they can't make more money as they get into higher levels because people with caps and etc.

08-7-2013 at 11:28 PM

I agree highly with Loreebee’s comment below. Everyone who has ever become anyone doing anything began at the ground level. Simply because they succeeded in their endeavors does not mean that someone should come along and say, “Hey, now. You know… you worked hard for it… but what you have achieved needs to be less so that others can be at the same level. I understand that you started at that same level, but that’s just how it has to be.”<br /> <br /> And yes, you are taking away goals for people. And yes—FUTURE goals for the people who have yet—but have a good chance of it someday—to become successful. What good is money if you have nothing worthwhile to spend it on—to invest in? That’s like Bill Gates trapped on a deserted island with all of his money and nothing around that found it at all valuable. <br /> <br /> People cannot just… level a field because they are not yet ready to climb up the mountain’s face. That’s ridiculous. And it wrecks the (what word to use here?) “glory” for everyone else who already did it and await others to join them. A trophy is just a memory of what you <i>did</i>.<br />

08-7-2013 at 11:12 PM

Okay. I see your point of view. However, I happen to be an owner of 9,000+ TP dogs. I spent over FORTY bones for a soldier helmet to make a 9,100 TP dog for the purpose of TRIALING. Then I spent more bones to procure a Magical Lifelong Locket to protect that investment—something I would not have done otherwise. I am fifteen years of age, so do you imagine that it was a simple task to gather 40+ bones for this purpose? And I also invested in a Prairie Dog to increase TP.<br /> <br /> “As recompense for all those affected by these changes, we will be offering a special achievement trophy, as well as an exclusive companion that will boost speed and drive!”<br /> <br /> Firstly, no trophy has ever been my ambition; certainly not a virtual one and it does not make up for my investment of money and time. Secondly – I have a bunch of companions to increase the nearly pointless attributes of speed and drive; to give more variety to my stock is as pointless as a trophy.<br /> <br /> Rather than touch anybody’s dogs or reap anything from them – change the trialing system further. Don’t like the 9,000+ TP dogs? Okay. Fair enough. Put them in a different trialing system. 9,000.99 TP dogs and below trial with dogs of that likeness: 9,001-9,500 TP dogs trial with dogs of <i>that</i> likeness. <b>Do not punish (because from my perspective and probably other’s as well, that’s what this nearly is) people who invest their time and money into YOUR game (which requires it’s player’s <i>money</i> and <i>time</i> to be a successful game) because of something that is certainly not their fault and absolutely somebody else’s.</b><br /> <br /> And the only way to ACTUALLY justify making people’s investments garbage is to give them their money back. I don’t care how you do it, but heck—appraise how much the items are worth (and not how much they would be worth, minus <i>x</i>) and repay your players. A trophy, sorry to say, isn’t worth forty bones—as forty bones, according to your donations page is worth $40 <i>real</i> dollars, which is an amount I wouldn’t pay for the best shirt I’d ever seen, which actually serves a practical purpose, opposed to a trophy.<br /> <br /> I apologize for that coming off rather harsh. I did not intent for the words to appear tart, when I would have said them matter-of-factly.<br />

08-7-2013 at 11:10 PM

Like Loreebee said "people are complaining" And I don't feel like people are complaining. I don't think it's about that at all people are going way overboard with the caps and helmets I have over capped dogs myself and I am still happy with the idea of lowering the cap to 9000 to make things fair for everyone with over capped dogs or not and I like the idea of just lowering the cap to 9000.

08-7-2013 at 10:22 PM

I do enjoy Kalid and Crevan's ideas, we do want something that people with over the capped dogs would be willing to agree to. If more of our player base likes their idea, we, as admins, would be more than happy to seriously consider it.<br /> <br /> And ShadowWolf, we do plan on having a trophy for people with over capped dogs who are affected by this.

08-7-2013 at 10:17 PM

I do like the idea of making the trials only count up to the cap. That is a good idea (especially since we would have to go through and manually reset every over the cap dog!)<br /> <br /> I don't want people to think I'm saying this because I don't have capped/over the cap dogs. I do, and have, made a profit off of these dogs, and I currently have an over the cap dog that I used my aviator caps and soldier helmets on. It's just that it was becoming a huge problem - and yes. Yes, I am swayed by people who are not rich, who can't afford soldier helmets and aviator caps. Because they have the right to enjoy the game, too, and the way it was working breaks the game and makes it not fun anymore for them. It's not just about any one person here. It's about the game in its entirety.

08-7-2013 at 9:52 PM

I like Crevan's idea of trials only counting TP to the cap and any points over don't count.<br /> <br /> I won't miss the top dawg list, as the majority of top dogs are now owned by a select few, and passing current leaders up at this point in the game is virtually impossible. As for making money with over the cap dogs, it wasn't a big difference from normal capped dogs. Since my over the cap dogs would always win they would blow through the tiers and in no time they'd be at that point where next to no one enters their dogs in trials, making them useless in a short amount of time.<br /> <br /> I wouldn't bawl if my dogs tp was wiped down to the cap, despite the money I put in, as long as there was some sort of trophy, compensation or something to acknowledge the efforts that had gone into getting a dogs tp so far over the cap.

08-7-2013 at 9:01 PM

The way I see it is that my dogs that are special to me, which are only a few anymore, will be just like every other capped dog out there and the millions I put into them was nothing. Between that and time (I customized all of my favorites, too) that went into them. Another suggestion I have is to compensate some of the stats lost with speed/drive gains on the dogs, if the stats must be swiped.<br /> <br /> Just put a cap on the trialing (any dog 8999 and over runs at the same 8999 cap), and allow dogs to continue to go over the cap for the fun of it, and for breeding benefits (for if you want capped pups out of lower statted dogs for the coats they'd give) at least then the dogs still have a purpose :) -- hehe and someone else mentioned this before I could post!<br /> <br /> OR if you don't want them trialing anymore, at least leave them as they are and allow breeding with them to run as it does ^^ So, again, it allows them to be useful after all that went into them. And give people the option to swipe their dogs back down to cap, or leave them for breeding only. My dogs have too many trial wins now anyway to bother with trialing them now so I'd prefer to leave them as they are myself. Others may opt for the other option.<br /> <br /> Just a couple more ideas I've thought up ^^