I do wonder if people also realize that the solution of keeping the trial system roughly the same and bringing in new games that dogs of all TP can equally participate in is still going to impact the trial system.<br /> <br /> The only options for that solution would be to have all subsequent new games not award cash (which really means that the new games would NOT be on the same level as the trial system) or to adjust payouts for all games.<br /> <br /> Let's say someone is able to make $500k a day with the current trial system. If a new game comes out that has equal ability for payouts as the trial system, in theory, that person could suddenly be making $1 million a day. That would wreck the economy even further.<br /> <br /> In order to keep that from happening, the payouts of the multiple games would have to be adjusted so that people are still making roughly the same amount playing all games as they were with just trialing. As is, people got very upset when the option to lower payouts in trialing was first suggested, but with the rolling out of new games, it would have to happen in order to keep people from racking up ridiculous amounts of cash per day.<br /> <br /> The only way that multiple games could be released that all stack up payout wise to the current trial system is if huge (HUGE) spending incentives were implemented that motivated players to use their cash on-site instead of hold on to it.<br /> <br /> However, I don't really see that as feasible unless new things were being rolled out in addition to the monthly shop, and it seems like getting things coded and in order is a bit of a challenge every month, so I'm not sure the manpower to accomplish something like that is there.

Creating TP sections for trials won't take away from capped dogs, lower TP dogs will be able to win some but will still make less money than capped dogs thus keeping their value. Unless things have changed lately how much you make is determined by how many points your dogs scores in a trial which is determined by TP.<br /> <br /> Capped and other high TP dogs will still have their value but low TP dogs will have a fighting chance and offer the ability for their owners to make a little money to save up for that capped dog or their own new line of dogs to bring new blood lines into the game.

I wasn't saying that was the only reason but I'm not going to really repeat myself ^^;;. <br /> <br /> Basically I thought it would create a better sense of competition between dogs.

capped dogs are loosing value because they are usually from the same lines, or they are coat's / breed's that people do not like or want.<br /> <br /> Most of the capped dogs i have seen are husky's and GSD's. The GSD's are mostly all from the same lines, or have some of the same lines passing through them. <br /> <br /> What the capped dogs need is more blood, new blood, but that is getting off topic.<br /> <br /> As a newbie it was hard to navigate the site. But i learned, and there are games that i played all the time to get money, and voting to get money.<br /> <br /> Just altering the trial system so a new person can make money makes the site cater only to new people. There are many ways for a new person to make money that doesn't involve trialing.<br /> <br /> I never trialed when i was new, only because I did not see a need in it, yes i would get some money, but I had to spend money to get it, the games and voting I didn't.<br /> <br /> I compete most of my dogs, the foundies included, and it just takes a little more time and searching, but a lot of my foundies have made it to odie level, even if they are not in trial teams. To some it isn't worth the effort, but to some it is.

I realize that it's not all just for money and that there are boosts. The thing is though, capped dogs are losing value anyways. I've seen capped dogs sell for 9k or something around there. Breeding them doesn't really make any money in selling, only trialing. People are still going to buy them at low prices to get the higher payout. Capped dogs are already losing value regardless of how the trialing works. <br /> <br /> Either way, the change to the trialing system will make me compete non-capped dogs. It's becoming not worth the effort.<br /> <br /> I just thought it would be nice for the newer players to be able to make money by working at trialing. I remember when I was new I didn't touch trialing because I was beaten out a lot. <br /> <br /> I'm feeling a little sickish at the moment so I'll cut this short ^^;. All I'm saying is, is that it's not a bad idea to at least consider and I'd like to hear more opinions on it. I'm not totally against the current 2 options.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, at first I really thought it was a good idea, but I have changed my mind.<br /> <br /> What a lot of people don't know, or realize is that even if your dog wins, they get a point in speed or in a TP trained. <br /> <br /> The trialing system is not just about making money, i really don't think people should make any money in it, though that does defeat the purpose, and I know realistically it isn't going to happen. Making money gets you to the trial system.<br /> <br /> But have you really thought about it, you enter your dog against 5 other dogs, the top three get money, the bottom two don't, yes that is true, but that is life. But all 5 dogs get a boost in a skill.<br /> <br /> I am one of those people that happen to love foundies and customs. I love these because they have no blood lines, so they can't have inbreeding or line breeding in them. But because of this, they do not have a high TP. But that's the point. They were not made for TP they were made for blood. <br /> <br /> I have changed my way of thinking of the trialing system, and this has changed my views on how it should work. No matter what, I am making my dog better by trailing, winning is just a perk that goes along with it.<br /> <br /> Yes it does cost money to enter a dog in trials, yes if you enter a lot, you lose a lot, but think what your dog is gaining. You may not think it is much, but think about it, you enter your dog in 4 trials a day, when the trails have all run, you could earn 4 points in speed, or a point in the teeter totter skill, and 3 in another skill.(this is an example) It does not seem like much at the time, but soon you will find your dogs trained TP getting higher, the higher the trained tp is, the better puppies tp wise your dog has. <br /> <br /> The training system is not just about winning money, and i think a lot of people don't realize that. But because of this, I do not feel like the tp tier system would be worth the effort that it would take to make it work, and I think that it would make dogs loose their value. <br />

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I still think it's a little unfair as to say that pretty much all dogs should suck unless they are at or near the cap. We never had this trialing problem because there was a point where we had no capped dogs and people did have more of a fair chance at winning because a huge chunk of dogs were around the same TP and competing against others of similar TP.<br /> <br /> I am a little disheartened at the statement about how feelings should not influence anything. We should be able to take from the logical and from our feelings. This is a game and the feeling on here should be one of "joy" or being "happy". I think people would have more fun if they could trial all their dogs against others in the same section. Right now this issue is creating a rift in some of the players (those with monsters and those without). Why wouldn't the feeling of the players be a factor if the situation is creating a strain with them?<br /> <br /> I also feel that the poll should have been redone now that the numbers are hidden (which the were not before) and add the tier option. It seems like people with monsters and without monsters feel like this is a nice option. <br /> <br /> I see the points you are getting at and I can understand your concerns, I hope you can see our viewpoint as well =). Not only would the tier be more fun in the game, it would resolve some of the tension between your players.<br /> <br /> And hey, wouldn't it be fun if we made it so that drive, speed, height, and weigh and personality all played more of a role when doing tiers? Then it would mean that your dog wouldn't necessarily win every time because its a high TP but an overall good balanced dog. (something crevan mentioned)<br /> <br /> The meaning of TP wouldn't be lost. It would still be a goal to compete in higher TP tiers to earn more money like Ionic has said. <br /> <br /> I think making the game more dynamic could really bring in more players and be more enjoyable =). <br /> <br /> Who else helped decide on this decision? I've only seen Kael and Jack respond but what about the others? I know there's more admins and I don't know if the mods helped at all with it but I'd like to see why they voted against it too if they would be so kind~ =)

I typed up a long post.. but I rather feel like it would be pointless to post it now.<br /> <br /> I will just say that I agree with Ionic and Jive. (They said everything better than I could!) Their suggestions seem the most logical and would benefit the site as a whole.

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I don't really see this as making any progress, so I'm going to agree to disagree. <br /> <br /> I do hope that something besides the current options up for vote will be taken into consideration though, as many many people are speaking out against them, and have pointed out severe flaws in both.

I don't think wanting a dog to win trials for the sake of winning trials is a viable reason to create tiers. ^^;<br /> <br /> It may be excluding certain dogs from entering trials on a wildly successful level, but by no means completely from the site.<br /> <br /> I have been randomly entering my customs two at a time in every trial in the past two days and they are nearly Odie. With more care and viewing your opponents currently you can still place, though you will not be on the same level as higher TP dogs, no.<br /> <br /> It excludes certain dogs, but it by no means excludes <i>the users themselves</i> unless they chose to limit themselves by only focusing on low TP dogs.<br /> <br /> Which I feel is an important note, because I disagree that it would be limiting the users in any way, only the dogs in trial system which can be put forward to breeding upwards the next generation and then participating in other events. :)<br /> <br /> The alternative activities would be a good way for users to enjoy and earn whilst building their account and dogs for trialing.<br /> <br /> It may be frustrating but there isn't a legitimate reason to cater for it out of that alone.<br /> <br /> If somehow different features start competing with one another and creating a rift, I would not discourage. I don't see how it could sensibly occur in the first place without deeming all parties involved slightly insane for being upset over something trivial, however. If they are, then I am afraid that is their burden to bear so long as they remain civil to other players whilst being competitive. That is not anything any amount of administrative power can control, it would be assigned to human nature and being competitive.<br /> <br /> Anyone can be competitive about anything and bicker about anything including the collection of most pocket lint, we can only hope they choose not to do so.<br /> <br /> I can understand the TP rift though not the latter. I genuinely feel that reason can be applied to anything and is not a sound supporting argument.<br /> <br /> Though these features would resolve the rift by keeping low TP dogs useful and encourage the demand for high TP dogs per user, both parties would have their purpose since we would intend for these features to consume energy and I would assume users would rather put that energy towards trialing on high TP and low TP can take over for others if they are no longer able to compete in trials well. Both serve essential functions on the team and are equally important, only in different ways. :)<br /> <br /> I am stating that tiers would take a tremendous amount of balance, time, energy, and coding for what I feel are not justifiable reasons listed here. Since inclusiveness and all other pros of the argument can be found in new features with less cons and more general excitement as well as room for creativity.<br /> <br /> In short, I cannot agree until there is an actual valid reason other than a user would like a particular dog to win because it would be very nice for that to happen in order to feel included on a specific subject it does not specialise in.<br /> <br /> I do not consider feelings as being legitimate reasons since there are many different conflicting feelings and feelings can often be unreasonable. I feel structural reason would be the most practical route to look for.<br /> <br /> It will take time to develop a new system, but that is the nature of things. We can only work through things little by little to achieve a balance.<br /> <br /> It would likewise take time to create a tier system and the flaws are significantly worse off as well as taking time away from other projects that could be worked on.<br /> <br /> It is essentially the same as creating an entirely new feature, because we would have to start the entire trial script from scratch, test for crucial bugs, make adjustments based on items such as aviator caps, soldier helmets, etc. It will have bugs, problems to work out, and other things of the like.<br /> <br /> The current flaws that had been listed have not really been addressed either. There have been explanations given, but no actual solutions or ideas of.<br /> <br /> It is very possible for us to resign to agree to disagree that you may not be on board whatsoever, but I hope it can be recognised that I am only stating my reasons as to why the idea is turned down. I am still willing to listen for solutions or adjustments, but debates that can be applied to anything, logical fallacies, lack of solutions, maybes, and whatifs are not likely to change my mind on the subject.<br /> <br /> It may sound a bit on the harsher side, but I am trying to push everyone to take a different approach in thinking and arranging their arguments.<br /> <br /> There needs to be a push to want to buy/train/breed higher TP dogs for Alacrity. I explained my reasons before that the given reason of higher payout would not be enough if scaled and compared to low/mid TP dog in this situation unless we would like to make the low/mid range unreasonable for those participating.<br /> <br /> This post may be somewhat disorganised as I am rather tired and about to retire.

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