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Posted: 2013-05-12 19:42:08
#12410

American Bully

 I'm creating this thread out of irritation and frustration lol
 Too many times have I see someone talk about their "pit" (which in itself is an incorrect word to use. "Pit" or "Pit Bull" is a blanket term for many breeds) that is actually an American Bully.
 Before I get into what an American Bully actually is, I'd like to talk about what exactly a "Pit" or "Pit Bull" is. Prepare for a history lesson.
 The true, original "Pit Bull" wasn't actually called a Pit Bull when it was first created in the 1700's. The dog as we know it originated as a bulldog mix, used to assist butchers/farmers with their cattle and was called simply.. the "bulldog", or "bulldogge". Some sadistic people saw the dogs working with the bulls and thought it would be fun to bet on how well a dog did the job, and bred the dogs for "bull-baiting".
 When bull-baiting was outlawed in the 1800's, people started breeding the dogs to fight rats in a pit (where the term "PIT" in Pit Bull came from), they had brought dogs from Ireland and Scotland, the Blue Poll, or "Blue Paul Terrier" from Scotland and the red bulldogs from Ireland (this is where the terms "red nose" and "blue nose" come from), and there were arguments over which dog was more game than the other; gameness meaning how willing a dog is to continue fighting even though it's on the losing end.
 This is where the Staffordshire Bull and Terrier was developed, also called the "Bull and Terrier". The breeders liked testing the gameness of the dogs and eventually starting matching their dogs against one another.
 When colonization occurred in North America, immigrants came over and brought their dogs with them, now called the "Pit Bull Terriers". The aficionados of the Pit Bull Terrier bred the dogs for different purposes. The dogs who were bred mainly for show were called the American Staffordshire Bull Terriers, the dogs who were kept for their purpose and bred for their looks were called the American Pit Bull Terriers in America, and the original Staffordshire Bull Terrier remained the same.
 Eventually, dog breed groups like the AKC started growing a distaste for the breed due to it's historical background in dog and pit-fighting, so they refused to allow the American Pit Bull Terrier to be registered, however, groups like the UKC allowed a dog to be registered as an APBT, which allowed people to dual-register their dogs as both American Staffordshire Bull Terriers with one group, and American Pit Bull Terriers in another.
 The term "Pit Bull" was once the name of the breed itself, but no longer holds that distinction. Nowadays, the name covers all sorts of breeds, ranging from the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier ("AmStaff"), to the American Pit Bull Terrier("APBT"), to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier ("Staffy"), and the American Bully, and if you want to get into BSL, any breed that resembles any of those.
 Getting back to the original point about "blue-nosed" and "red-nosed" dogs, that was based on people arguing and bragging about what dog they had was more game than their opponents dog, that's all. There is STILL to this day arguments about blue-nosed dogs not being "game", but red-nosed and blue-nosed are nothing special, they are still APBT (although some people claim that the blue-nosed dogs aren't APBT at all), just with different coat colours. A "blue-nosed" or "red-nosed" APBT("Pit Bull") is still an APBT, it's not special, it's not magical. It's like "teacup" Chihuahuas - it's just a dwarfed Chihuahua.
 There are certainly blue APBT out there, but when people claim to breed "blue-nosed pits", they're most likely going to be the American Bully.
 The American Bully is a new breed of dog (created around 1990 I believe) bred from the American Pit Bull Terrier and Bulldog. It is not an American Pit Bull Terrier, it's not an American Staffordshire Bull Terrier, it's not a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, it's not a mix of the above, it's an American Bully. The American Bully has not been bred with any purpose other than to look "cool" or "bad", and the breeders often try to breed for "blue-nosed" dogs and label them "blue-nosed Pit Bulls", which is not only falsely labeling but is dangerous for the breeders and anybody who purchases them.
 When you breed a dog for only appearance, you are not taking temperament, diseases, disorders, or any other hereditary issues into consideration and because of this, some American Bullies have the tendency to be aggressive. Breeders like "MrPitBull", "Gotti", and "Razor's Edge" continue to push backyard breeding and mislabeling of the breed.
 So I've created this thread out of irritation of the APBT being slandered by this American Bully nonsense ahhaha. I will post some comparison images and y'all can judge for yourself. All of these dogs are purebreeds and are good examples of their breed.

American Pit Bull Terrier: http://i39.tinypic.com/nauk3.jpg
Staffordshire Bull Terrier:http://i42.tinypic.com/5zl5e1.jpg
American Staffordshire Bull Terrier: http://i41.tinypic.com/34g4pab.jpg
American Bully: http://i41.tinypic.com/9k5i5u.jpg
Last edited:2013-05-30 11:56:07

Replies

#117543
I believe it was Go Pitbull. I was a member there before but lost my old login details but I'm going to sign back up again soon. There was another forum but I'm having a hard time finding it and remembering the name. <br /> <br /> GSDs are awesome dogs! There's a guy that lives a few streets over from us that has two of them and they are very smart dogs. They're also on the top of the list of breeds I've been considering. The only thing holding me back is the apartment laws here. Many of the breeds I've been considering are restricted breeds here and almost every apartment has some kind of weight limit for dogs. It's unfortunate irresponsible always have to ruin it for everyone.<br /> <br /> I hate people that fight their dogs with a passion. Not very long ago, someone tied their Pit Bull to a rope by the neck and it was found dangling from it. They believe it was used for fighting because he/she had a lot of bite wounds. It really sickens me that someone would actually do something like that.<br /> <br />
#117542
Mind if I ask which forum? I'm a member on several Pit Bull forums... and yeah, they can be ridiculous when it comes to bashing. (Although PitBull-Chat does have a little Ambully subsection)<br /> <br /> <br /> Aaand Ambully forums... @_@ I just stay away, lol. <br /> <br /> And APBT can be just as stubborn and selfish. Sadly some forums still support dog fighting and believe that you don't have a "real dog" unless you fight it... and of course there's the APBT people who seem to think Ambullies need to be as athletic as APBTs. -_-"<br /> <br /> <br /> I'm not sure if I'd own a Ambully, primarily because I like very athletic, high drive, intense dogs. And I don't want to really have more than 2 dogs at once. (I'm more of a GSD person myself.) But if I could find a nice breeder I would consider one for a break from my crazy dogs. : )
#117529
Very nice post Celestial88 :) I'm definitely going to start back researching american bullies again. I think my confusion on am bullies started from a pit bull forum that I was a member on that pretty much bashed Am Bullies and enthusiasts by saying they're "designer mutts" and other really ignorant things. As for the APBT history, I too always believed they were developed as fighting dogs.<br /> <br /> I also agree with you to with Am Bully breeders. It really does irritate me that some of them breed just to make a profit. Just a few days ago, I was on a an American Bully forum and a guy made an ad for a dog that said "if you don't have deep pockets, don't waste my time." Really angered me but there's nothing I can do. And yes, they're are a lot of beautiful Am Bullies out there. I hate how some people try to all call them ignorant names and try to compare them to their APBT. I've seen it way too many times and coming from an Am Bully lover, it's very annoying. I'm pretty sure if the creators of Bullies wanted them to be slimmer, they would've did something different. I love their bulkyness. It's when breeders start breeding horrible looking dogs that angers me. And when I say horrible looking, I'm talking Bullies with chests that spread out much too far like a yard stick.<br /> <br /> I'm still on the search for my first Am Bully pup. I really hope I can come across someone who doesn't want an arm and a leg for their dogs. I've been wanting a tri color or fawn and white standard or classic bully and all of the dogs I was interested in were going for $2500 or more. Still keeping my eyes peeled though because I really want to work with the breed in the future and participate in showing. It's been a dream of mine since I first came across bullies a few years ago &lt;3
#117501
I'm sorry... but there's a lot of inaccuracies in your original post... I'm like horrid OCD soooo xD Although &lt;3 for not trying to hide that the breed was developed for dog fighting ... it annoys me when folks try to say they were bred purely as cattle dogs.<br /> <br /> <br /> I'll start with American Bullies. They were not created from "APBT and Bulldog" crosses. They were created from selectively bred overdone Amstaffs. Later on people started mixing with non-bully bloodlines that were crossed.<br /> <br /> Here's the <a href="http://www.bullypedia.net/americanbully/details.php?id=63254">foundation dog</a> of Razor's Edge (the foundation Ambully line)<br /> He's Amstaff through and through. <br /> <br /> And here's a <a href="http://www.bullypedia.net/americanbully/details.php?id=64584">very nice Ambully,</a> a standard GR CH you can follow his bloodline back to Amstaffs. <br /> <br /> Ooh-rah is also heath tested. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Aaaand "blue nose" was never an actual accepted term. That only cropped up recently in backyard breeding practices as a way to make their dogs sound special. (None of the old dogmen records contain any this) <br /> <br /> There's a strain called Old Family Red Nose but that's about it. There's "Red red nose" which is a color term used to distinguish between "red". Since you can have a recessive red dog with red nose pigment and you can have a dog with a red base coat but black nose pigment, even masking. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <i><br /> American Bullies are a cross between English Bulldogs and one of the "Pit Bull" breeds, so yeah you're basically right.</i><br /> <br /> This is not true, as I had mentioned. <br /> <br /> <br /> The confusion comes in with different lines being played off as Ambullies or mixed in with them. Lines like Genghis Kan(they spell it odd), and Iron Cross mixed their dogs. Although, the lines themselves are not Ambullies they have been mixes in with Ambullies. <br /> <br /> Some Gottyline breeders did mix, not all, but some did indeed mix. <br /><br /> <br /> (Gotti isn't a breeder, it's a bloodline based of Notorious Juan Gotty. And Razor's Edge isn't a kennel either. The creator of the bloodline, Dave Wilson, no longer breeds Ambulles.) <br /> <br /> <br /> RE is the backbone of the breed, already explained that.<br /> <br /> And then you have "Exotic" American Bullies, like Mr.Miagi, who are bred outside of the registry (not papered) and mixed with things like Frenchie and sold at a ridiculous price. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> ========<br /> The Amstaff was not created until after the AKC refused the APBT. Essentially they were originally APBTs but the AKC bred to a different standard, for a different purpose and created a new breed. <br /> <br /> The UKC was created <i>for</i> the APBT. Bennett's Ring to be exact, since the AKC refused the APBT as a fighting breed. The APBT was literally developed for/in the pit. The UKC had a list of requirements before a dog could be registered as a APBT. One was that the dog had to be a 3x winner. (No need to bash the current UKC, that was a very different time)<br /> <br /> Here's a source, there's a looot so Crtl+F and enter official to find the paragraph<br /> http://purebrednz.com/scot_e_dowd.htm (UKC judge) <br /> _____________________<br /> That said, I agree that the confusion is terrible and it drives me insane. I have such a hard time explaining it to people who don't understand because it's so bloody complex.<br /> <br /> I also hate the direction some breeders are taking the Ambully. But there's still plenty of nice dogs : )<br /> <a href="http://www.bullypedia.net/americanbully/details.php?id=162886">Trained Police K9</a> <br /> <a href="http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad178/i_heart_dakota/American%20Bullies/IMG_0378-Copy.jpg">Porkchop</a> <br /> <a href="http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad178/i_heart_dakota/American%20Bullies/254630_3266974211766_674676126_n_zpsaaa310e8.jpg">CH Womanizer</a> <br /> <a href="http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad178/i_heart_dakota/American%20Bullies/tumblr_mc672alHwN1rg2akwo1_500_zpsa0b691c1.png">I forgot this fella's name...</a> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Sorry if I sound harsh at all, I really don't mean to! ... like I mentioned.. just OCD. :P
Last edited:2013-05-27 14:48:59
#117491
Those dogs are seriously horrid, and I did google Freakshow.. where I read that he's a "stud". I sure hope they don't actually stud him out ;/<br /> <br /> The good examples you posted were okay, but I wasn't a fan of some of them - mainly #2, #3, and #6.
#117489
My stupid computer has the hiccups, sorry for the double post X(
#117488
Yeah, the American Bully community definitely has some explaining to do. Like 99.9% of the breeders are giving them and other unrelated breeds a bad name. But one thing I can say is not all American Bullies are "fat, mutated, genetic messes" as many people like to call them and not all of the breeders are wannabe street thugs, etc. I've seen many great examples of them but probably more bad examples than anything, which I know is sad. Just look up Freakshow. He was even mentioned on a few Bully blogs and Pit Bull forums and even Am Bully breeders and owners said he was horrible looking and gives the breed as a whole a bad name and needs to be neutered. Now he is definitely what I would call a short, fat, mutated genetic mess.<br /> <br /> <br /> Here are even more bad examples of them. A lot of Am Bully breeders/owners do not approve of these dogs either. You can tell whoever owns these dogs are definitely just breeding for money and could care less about the dogs health. I'd get these dogs neutered to keep them from producing even more unhealthy puppies. Dogs like these definitely won't live very long, which is pitiful.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://americanbullyandexoticbully.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/karatekid12.jpg">Bad Example #1</a><br /> <a href="http://pics.hoobly.com/full/jy2ywkSkrZ.jpg">Bad Example #2</a><br /> <a href="http://vitaminsforpitbulls.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/short_wide_bully_pitbull.jpg">Bad Example #3</a><br /> <a href="http://www.vitaminsforpitbulls.com/images/gottiline_bully.jpg">Bad Example #4</a><br /> <br /> This one probably has to be in the top 5 most horrible bullies I've ever seen - <a href="http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/poc/130306/811r1/6468bie_27.jpeg">Bad Example #5</a><br /> <br /> Another horrible example. Definitely what I would call a fat, overdone, worthless, mutant<br /> <a href="http://images04.olx.com/ui/11/90/31/1308505378_191718931_1-Fotos-de--American-Bully-Filhote-a-Vender.jpg">Bad Example #6</a><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> And now for what are to me, good examples that aren't overdone and mutant looking like the ones I posted above. I know they put bullies in those weird categories by their body type which is just stupid but hey, what can you do? I found a few examples of classic bullies and the shorter, somewhat bulkier bullies.<br /> <a href="http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/46/8c5ccb8bd351439dbf8d01bae8b27037/l.jpg">Good Example #1</a><br /> <a href="http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q743/Tiffany_DemiGod_Bullies/grchgatekeeper.jpg">Good Example #2</a><br /> <a href="http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/306976/306976,1304713713,2/stock-photo-purebred-canine-dog-american-bully-seal-colored-dog-standing-on-lawn-in-autumn-76696369.jpg">Good Example #3</a><br /> <a href="http://vitaminsforpitbulls.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/american-bully-pitbull.jpg">Good Example #4</a><br /> I ADORE this one - <a href="http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/poc/130329/805r1/1388k40_27.jpeg">Good Example #5</a><br /> <a href="http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad178/i_heart_dakota/American%20Bullies/Prophecy.jpg">Good Example #6</a><br /> <br /> I hope you liked those examples, especially those of the bad eggs. They are what give Bullies a bad name. Not all Am Bullies are atrocious just like not all APBT are evil and aggressive like people call them. We need to start looking more at the owner/breeder and not the dog itself.
Last edited:2013-05-26 10:46:26
#117479
"<i>Nearly all of them claim American Bullies are the result of crossing American Staffordshire Terriers with APBTs and I call bullcrap. I see Mastiff, Bulldog, and many other molosser breeds in them.</i>"<br /> American Bullies are a cross between English Bulldogs and one of the "Pit Bull" breeds, so yeah you're basically right. It's a darn shame they're falsely labeling these dogs as APBT. The "Gotti Pit Bulls" originated as an <i>unplanned, accidental breeding</i>.<br /> <br /> "<i>I see these dogs going for thousands and the highest I've seen personally was $7,000 for a blue pup with so-called champion bloodlines.</i>"<br /> This always makes me laugh. Champions? Champions of what? You can't do any sports with a dog shaped like that, you can't weight pull with them, what? What is it? Champion of being "wide n low"??<br /> <br /> "<i>I've even heard that there is a lot of inbreeding going on with them which just disgusts me.</i>"<br /> The inbreeding in the popular Ambully lines is absolutely atrocious. Unfortunately, I can't remember which breeder it was, but the dogs were inbred like father to daughter, father to granddaughter, rinse and repeat for all dogs in the lines.
Last edited:2013-05-25 18:18:26
#117466
I agree with you guys as well. I joined an Am Bully forum out of simple curiosity awhile back and I nearly lost my mind. Everyone referred to their dogs as APBT's or Bully Pits, XXL Pits, etc. It drove me nuts. I also hate how breeders lie about these dogs. Nearly all of them claim American Bullies are the result of crossing American Staffordshire Terriers with APBTs and I call bullcrap. I see Mastiff, Bulldog, and many other molosser breeds in them. They didn't get those wide bodies out of thin air.<br /> <br /> Another thing I hate is how much these "breeders" sell them for. I see these dogs going for thousands and the highest I've seen personally was $7,000 for a blue pup with so-called champion bloodlines. Most them of them are just breeding these dogs for money and most of those breeders do not health test or temperament test as they say they do. I've even heard that there is a lot of inbreeding going on with them which just disgusts me.<br /> <br /> Overall, they're ok to me. I've seen some that I thought were just beautiful and I've seen that I thought were just.....no. Off topic a little but one that I met was a big sweetheart and the guy that owned properly referred to him as a Bully and not an APBT. His dog is what made me fall in love with them but hate the breeders. I think the first step to take is to make these breeders stop referring to them as Pit Bulls. The second would be to expose the truth of these dogs. I have yet to find a reputable kennel that properly refers to them as Bullies and is actually dedicated to improving them and isn't obsessed with quantity over quality. Seriously, I've been wanting a tri-color Bully but there's no way I'm shelling out $1000 for one.<br /> <br /> And this is just a perfect example of why I truly cannot stand Am Bully breeders. Take a look around this kennel and then go over to the puppies tab. I'm done.<br /> <br /> http://www.raidernationkennels.com/HOME.html
Last edited:2013-05-25 11:02:46
#117441
Aw, I see most of the true history behind the breed is well known there. I do have to say, however, that from what Ive researched and got from alot of different sources over the years, I have come to conclude a few different things. But they are relatively small and actually similar to what you have said, Cat Steaks. Its just a few more details I include and slightly different time frames for somethings in the order you told. Of course, though, the histories we know are very much similar, if not technically the same to some extent, and I honor your knowledge.<br /> <br /> However, in my oppinion, I use pit or pitbull, or pitty as all nicknames for 4 relative breeds. The staffy bull, the am. staff, the am. Pitbull Terrier, and a breed that came off these breeds in Mexico and more south after the staffordshire came to the US, a dog I refer to and that has been introduced as the South American Pitbull. Now, this fourth breed is relatively a mutt these days because of poor breeding with other dogs down there. But there are some that Ive seen that are quite true to what they first were bred to look like down there as well. They are much like the staffy bull terrier(mostly in size), but slightly different in head, frame and muscle, and were often meant to have stood up ears. <br /> <br /> I do however, agree with the mix ups with the name. However, I still think of much of the APBT as mutts, but that is because I look at all these so called UKC registered APBT dogs and see so many differences in head and size and frame(except for in the show ring, most are very similar). Not saying they arent full blooded, but I just dont see the APBT as pure enough yet in my eyes, or I see them as closer to the amstaff.<br /> <br /> Anyway Im quite anal about the misleading of names as well. I had a am. bulldog and sharpei mix at one time, and many people mistook her for a "Pitbull".

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