This debate is QUICKLY getting out of hand. Remember proper etiquette. We do NOT call each other monsters. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs. <br /> <br /> Please conduct yourselves properly, or this debate will have to be closed.

No, but you are saying that all these people who are killing are horrible monsters. And yet, you are okay with killing them. That technically puts you, and whoever executes them, on their level. That's what I'm saying. And I didn't feel like quoting your entire post because it would make me post even more of a huge wall of text than they already usually are, so I saved some space. And I always have an, attitude, honey. It's who I am. I'm actually holding back quite a bit here.

that wasn't my entire quote and would you mind being a little more,,, sensative? youre starting to have a lot of attitude with me. and are you saying anyone who is pro-death penalty is a monster???

"Cervine Diety, you want me to pay attention to that quote???? it's Inaccurate, because you took an eye away from the victim so you get your eye taken away."<br /> <br /> Haha, really? You're saying it's wrong. Yeah, cause I'm more likely to listen to you than to Gandhi. Really? You don't seem to understand the quote. He said it in response to things like this, where if you take someone's eye, then you get your eye taken away. With that logic, the second person is also in the wrong and must be punished as well, then the person after them has to be punished as well and etc. It makes the whole world blind. Seriously, what gives them the right to kill these "monsters"? Nothing. Nothing at all. Those so called monsters are still men. And they still have the right to live. Nobody should be able to take that from them.<br /> <br /> How can I justify letting them live? Very easily. Because I am not a monster. I do not wish for anyone to lose their life at the hands of another person. Because they are still people. No matter what horrible acts they have committed in the past, they are still human beings. They still feel and they still think, and you have no right to take their breath and life away from them. Let them rot in prison until they die of old age. Let them sit the rest of their lives thinking on the horrible acts that they committed. <br /> <br /> “I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”

carnival kennels, i just feel that maybe youre blind as to how the serial killers i want on death row are monsters. i see them for what they are. Monsters. Giest, thanks for trying. i believe people so against the death penalty are better people, for they can love and fight for such lowlives, i am not one of them and i think thats fine. a criminal who deserves to be on death row is not worth fighting for. Rooster my response to Giest's admittably good idea is that we can force them to take drugs against their will. they Fully understand that drugs would help them but still refuse it. and of course we would all love to be so heroic, but saying it and doing it are very different as im sure you know. id admit that i would never be able to do such a thing, for my dearly departed would mean too much to me for me to be able to just let it go, even if i knew thats what they wanted me to do. Cervine Diety, you want me to pay attention to that quote???? it's Inaccurate, because you took an eye away from the victim so you get your eye taken away. the total loss is two eyes BUT OUT OF FOUR. each still has one eye to see out of. and not really actually??? omg, of course there are people who regret their crimes, i don't want them to die on death row i want the ones who don't and never will to die on death row, why on earth anyone can justify such a monster to continue life with the rest of us is beyound me, take a moment and think and make sure you and i are on the same page because the people i want six feet under are the people who you can barely stand in a room with, the people who are beyound twisted and are only out for themselves, not insane, just twisted, they know what they did is wrong but they dont care whereas an insane person doesn't know what they did was wrong, im not saying one murder im saying Tens of bodies in the morge. it's not just an Eye, it's one twisted diseased eye that needs to be removed for the better good of the entire health system

I apologize if anything I said was already said. Just woke up, so I'm responding to stuff.<br /> <br /> Karma is a load of bull. Also, Karma isn't a force that can be controlled by humans. If it was Karma, the murderer would be in a hit and run, not put on death row, in an action that is ironic. Death row is not ironic. It's just cruel.<br /> <br /> And I do believe in justice. And justice isn't killing the murderer. I can say if I was killed, I wouldn't want them put on death row. At all. I love how you keep ignoring my very important quote, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."<br /> <br /> "what you fail to realize is is that the people we're talking about executing feel/show No Remorse and say they would do it again."<br /> <br /> Not always, actually. There are plenty of murderers out there who regret what they do, or, after like 20 years in prison, regret their earlier actions.<br /> <br /> "People who kill are not orphans with absolutely no connections. Sometimes, sure, that's the case. But people often forget that by putting a killer to death, they are killing someone's son or daughter, husband or wife, father or mother, boyfriend or girlfriend, sister or brother, cousin, etc. And the family of the killer, though grieved by what their loved one has done, are being forced to experience the same loss as the victim's family even though the only thing -they- are guilty of is being related to them."<br /> <br /> Can I just applaud you for this post? Seriously. This. All of it.<br /> <br /> "i know how heartless this will sound, but im sure the family of the executed are better off."<br /> <br /> You're right. That does sound incredibly heartless. Go tell that straight to the face of a six year old whose beloved father was just put to death. Or the grieving widow.<br /> <br /> "most of the time they're from an highly abusive background as well."<br /> <br /> Haha, not true. This is a huge generalization that is completely false. I mean, what? There are plenty of murderers out there who don't come from abusive backgrounds. Sure, some do, but you can't make generalizations like that. Especially if you aren't going to bother backing it up.<br /> <br /> "#2 that person doesn't belong on earth."<br /> <br /> What?! I'm sorry, what?! Who the hell are you to decide this. You are not god, and you should not try to play god. Neither should the people who are putting these people to death. No one has the right to decide who dies and who lives other than the gods. Sure, the murderers made that choice for the people they killed, but it doesn't make it right to kill that person. Killing them does not bring back the murdered.

If you're anything like me, Geist and Carni, you'll still be stalking this thread even if you've bowed out :P So, here goes:<br /> <br /> I didn't read all the posts - I skimmed them (short on time here) but the arguments I skimmed over seem pretty valid. I've never been put in a position of "My relative/loved one was murdered and the murderer faces the death penalty." I've never had to deal with this, and I'm so thankful for that. I can imagine, though, that if I was in this situation I would be so torn as to what to do. On the one hand, I'd really want to know that the killer was gone from the earth and couldn't hurt anyone else again. But on the other hand, I've always thought it was beautiful when the victim's family goes and forgives the murderer. In those videos, you can often tell just from body language that the murderer does regret his actions. I think I'd like to be one of the latter people - the kind who forgives. It just seems like the healthier route to take. <br /> <br /> And Geist, I'd never heard of the chemical imbalance in the brain that is thought to cause murderers to kill. If that's truly the case, then I think it's incredible that it's something so "simple" to fix. I say drug 'em with whatever fixes that, and then have them serve their time (whether in prison or a secure mental facility). If they're truly changed people at the end of it, that would be amazing.<br /> <br /> There's still the matter of serial killers who don't have any regret for their actions (you know, the crazy ones, the stuff horror movies are made of). I don't think they'd be fit to be introduced into the general population in a prison - they'd probably do everything possible to establish themselves as someone the other inmates don't want to contend with. I'm not saying kill them (even though that's probably the easiest and cheapest solution), but something needs to happen to keep them away from other inmates - maybe solitary, or even an extremely secure mental facility. Something.<br /> <br /> The death penalty isn't something I'm going to go out and fight (already have my hands full with spay/neuter and animal rights), but it's not something I'm going to adamantly support either.<br /> <br /> So good job - I think you actually managed to change my mind. (It's not easy, so kudos :P)

Also bowing out. I can't continue this debate as you're not getting what I'm trying to say to you, and I don't like butting my head against a brick wall. I also don't want this to turn into another mudslinging contest.

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You seem to have gleaned over the part where God kills David's son, a child who wasn't guilty of anything.<br /> <br /> But I could go on and on about my thoughts on the Bible, though this isn't the place for it.<br /> <br /> You just said that "to me, they are not human." Serial killers share this opinion/perception of people. Often, they'll feel that their victims deserve to die for one reason or another. Your reason is not any better than theirs, to me. Your hands may not throw the switch, or deliver the injection, but you also condone it, you have dehumanized the individual being killed, and even if you feel regret that the person's family will be in pain, you've stated that you don't really care. That killing the killer is more important than that pain.<br /> <br /> You, in effect, are sharing the exact same outlook on people as some of these killers do. And somehow, it's escaping your notice.<br /> <br /> But clearly, you won't be persuaded, so I'll leave this debate having already made all the points that I care to. Like a killer that can't be rehabilitated, or doesn't "want" treatment, you seem to exhibit the same resistance.<br /> <br /> Even Osama Bin Laden and his terrorists did what they did because they felt they were in the right, that they were defending their beliefs and their country from America, and provoking war. They aren't just a bunch of evil men who do what they do for jollies, or because they like watching people die.<br /> <br /> I'm not saying their attack on the USA was okay, it absolutely wasn't. But death begets death begets death, and it never solves anything except to feed the vulgar hunger for revenge.<br /> <br /> I, for one, will be glad not to be a part of that growing mass grave of people killing and being killed.

im saying yes i would regret the pain it might cause the families but i would do it no matter what. it's not disregard for emotion and in fact it's the exact opposite of not caring about the fallout. it Is the fallout. it Is the Reaction, the Result of the criminal's actions. as i said before, some people do not belong on this earth. speeding up the process Is necessary if it's deserved and or saves lives. as for you not agreeing with "some people do not belong on earth" My God forgave david because he admit he'd done wrong and regretted it ("i have sinnged against the Lord!!!). that's why God forgave him. so frankly that passage doesn't explain why "some people don't belong on this earth" is wrong. and no i don't have pleasure, however you might be correct when you say i not having all my marbles... i think it's how i value things. my entire life people tell me i don't deserve to live, why? as far as im concerned, it's because they were Sick and Arrogant, not because of my actions i assure you but because they were just horrible people. so i base a lot of things off of whether or not i think they deserve it. i don't take pleasure in it because Horrible things were done to deserve it. you must think it satisfies me just because i have a more accepting view of death then most. i don't regret it, because the criminal sure as hell didn't regret the lives he or she has taken. in my opinion, a criminal fit for execution, is not human in my eyes. and i understand that they sure as hell didn't want execution but there is a Huge difference in between Wanting Help, and wanting retribution, punishment. if they deny their "get out of death free card" (medication) then how badly do you think they doN'T want to die? now of course i know some of them Really Really DoN'T want to deny and refuse help still, if they understand the choice their making then so be it.

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