"the families? yes i guess after some thought i would regret causing them grief, but it doesn't change the choice i made."<br /> <br /> Do you mean the decision you've already made to have them put to death, or the family's grief doesn't change it? If the former, <i>you</i> can change your decision. If the latter, well.. Isn't that the line of thinking that's some people are trying to remedy with a lethal injection? Disregard for the emotions of others, the harm caused, not caring about the fallout?<br /> <br /> "the serial killer brought that on his or her self."<br /> <br /> I certainly agree that they brought punishment onto themselves, that I will not contest. It's the punishment I don't agree on. You don't have to rob someone of their lives to punish them. And there's the option of helping them better themselves, make them a healthier individual.<br /> <br /> "#1 they would have died anyway."<br /> <br /> I'm going to die. You're going to die. We're all going to die. Speeding up the process is not necessary.<br /> <br /> "#2 that person doesn't belong on earth."<br /> <br /> In my personal opinion, that is a horrible thing to say and I can't elaborate well without potentially coming off as offensive. I'll try.. delicately.. anyway. You spoke of sin. I'm not religious, but..<br /> <br /> Samual 2<br /> (edited for length, I did not remove or change any of the wording, you can crack open your own Bible and read this for yourself.)<br /> <br /> <font size=1><i>11:2 One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of his palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. Now this woman was very attractive. <br /> 11:3 So David sent someone to inquire about the woman. The messenger said, “Isn’t this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, <u>the wife of Uriah the Hittite?</u>”<br /> 11:4 David sent some messengers to get her. She came to him and he had sexual relations with her. Then she returned to her home. The woman conceived and then sent word to David saying, “I’m pregnant.”<br /> 11:6 So David sent a message to Joab that said, “Send me Uriah the Hittite.” So Joab sent Uriah to David. <br /> 11:7 When Uriah came to him, David asked about how Joab and the army were doing and how the campaign was going. <br /> 11:8 Then David said to Uriah, “Go down to your home and relax.” When Uriah left the palace, the king sent a gift to him. <br /> 11:9 But Uriah stayed at the door of the palace with all the servants of his lord. He did not go down to his house.<br /> 11:10 So they informed David, “Uriah has not gone down to his house.” So David said to Uriah, “Haven’t you just arrived from a journey? Why haven’t you gone down to your house?” <br /> 11:11 Uriah replied to David, “The ark and Israel and Judah reside in temporary shelters, and my lord Joab and my lord’s soldiers are camping in the open field. Should I go to my house to eat and drink and have marital relations with my wife? As surely as you are alive, I will not do this thing!” <br /> 11:12 So David said to Uriah, “Stay here another day. Tomorrow I will send you back.” So Uriah stayed in Jerusalem both that day and the following one. <br /> 11:13 Then David summoned him. He ate and drank with him, and got him drunk. But in the evening he went out to sleep on his bed with the servants of his lord; he did not go down to his own house.<br /> 11:14 In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. In the letter he wrote: “Station Uriah in the thick of the battle and then withdraw from him so he will be cut down and killed.”<br /> 11:16 So as Joab kept watch on the city, he stationed Uriah at the place where he knew the best enemy soldiers were. <br /> 11:17 When the men of the city came out and fought with Joab, some of David’s soldiers 20 fell in battle. <u>Uriah the Hittite also died.</u><br /> ----<br /> 11:26 When Uriah’s wife heard that her husband Uriah was dead, she mourned for him.<br /> 11:27 When the time of mourning passed, David had her brought to his palace. She became his wife and she bore him a son. But what David had done upset the Lord.<br /> ----<br /> 12:13 Then David exclaimed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord!” Nathan replied to David, “Yes, and the Lord has forgiven your sin. You are not going to die. <br /> 12:14 Nonetheless, because you have treated the Lord with such contempt 26 in this matter, the son who has been born to you will certainly die.”</font></i><br /> <br /> By your logic, David shouldn't be allowed to walk the earth. And he should be put to death. However, the god that you believe in forgave him. He just kinda wiped his son out in the process, which is fairly monstrous in itself, but regardless. How is a murderer, who plots his crime in advance for selfish gain and no regard for the people he'll hurt any different from today's cold-hearted murderers?<br /> <br /> "if a grieving family and some bloodshed on my governments hands is the price to pay, i'll pay it no hesitation. i can live with that for the rest of my life."<br /> <br /> I am really not trying to attack you or be rude. A grieving family, not having the blood personally on your hands, exhibiting no regret. I've studied killers for years and years and you would be surprised how many think like this. They're dehumanized to you, just as a murderer's victims are. You don't regret their deaths, and judging by previous posts, it seems as though you would get pleasure (satisfaction) at their deaths. This is fairly chilling and I would gently advise some very careful introspection.<br /> <br /> "as for you're medicate the high testosterone and low seritonin and dopamine levels::: they don't want it, they admit they would do it again, and it doesn't change anything. i know depressed and hostile people too, but they got help. they wanted help. we can't medicate them against their will."<br /> <br /> The catch is, it has the potential to result in change. As for not wanting it, I bet they don't want a lethal injection, either. Which do you think they would choose, between the two?

I'm afraid I just can't agree with you.<br /> <br /> Even with Osama Bin Laden, I didn't rejoice in his death. Yes, he needed to be captured and all modes of communication with his terrorist groups severed, but I don't condone his death.<br /> <br /> "Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that." MLK Jr.

we are obviously not on the same page when it comes to psychotic killers. if they are Truly Delusional, they are diagnosed by a psychiatrist. if the psychiatrist says this person totally understands what they did and doesn't regret it and doesn't care and will do it again and is not clinically insane is the kind of person who needs to be executed. in such cases of course psychiatrists are called into to say is this person Really Delusional? or Twisted, and not insane? im not saying delusional patients deserve execution God no, im saying a person who a psychiatrists declares Not Insane, just insanely Twisted needs to be executed

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"Meredith, you're right, that does sound, and is, completely heartless." Thank you. i appreciate someone who doesn't sugar coat, bluntness wastes less time. Life's Cruel. i accept that. and i never said the families didn't have the right to love them, of course they do. and just because i believe the criminal doesn't deserve that love doesn't mean im not thankful for it because i am fully awear(sp?) of how much worse they could have become without said love. but do they appreciate said love? do they even acknowledge it? i know i don't have the right to say they don't deserve love. but i'll say it anyway. how many times did i say if they don't understand that what they did was wrong because of a mental disability of course they shouldn't be sent to execution, if they understand but Don't Care then that's Twisted. and we can't Force them to take medication. their lawyers (defense attorneys) always go for the insanity plea and tell the client if they agree to take meds they can avoid being executed, they don't care. as for that to kill a killer makes you a killer,,, it doesn't make us hippocrites. it makes us do what as we see best for Everyone involved. what about the killer of Osama? i'd bet you weren't exactly sad when you heard that news? because certain people don't belong on this earth, they need to die one way or another, it's taking care of what needs to be done and no it's not pretty.

Meredith, you're right, that does sound, and is, completely heartless.<br /> <br /> Also, two of the worst known serial killers did not come from abusive homes. Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy came from well-to-do, church-going families, who did not physically or emotionally abuse either of them.<br /> <br /> The same can be said for many people who kill. They are often psychologically ill, and in need of medication and therapy. As abhorent as their actions are, and as much as you or others may not feel like they deserved the love of their families, imagine how much worse they might have been if they did -not- have that love to begin with. And I don't think it should be up to someone else to decide if a person deserves that love. Maybe they don't deserve -your- love, or -my- love, but their families have every right to love them and want them to stay alive, holding out the hope that they can become better people who truly regret their actions.<br /> <br /> If you actually research the people who are guilty of murder, they are all over the spectrum. Some come from wealthy families, such as the pair of brothers who decided to kill their wealthy parents, and had not been abused or neglected into doing so. Killers come from all walks of life, and while some have been abused as children and become killers, those are actually in the minority. If that were a telling element in all killers, you might as well write off every single person who's had an abusive past.<br /> <br /> I would strongly advice you actually do some research about serial killers, and look at case studies, where available, of criminals. And some killers become what they are -because- they never felt loved or nurtured, or were surrounded from the time they were born in an environment full of killings, drive-bys, drug deals, etc. etc.<br /> <br /> To kill a killer, as far as I'm concerned, is just to be a killer, yourself. They are still human beings with pasts, loved ones, both fond and negative memories, and I feel they deserve to live with the things they've done.<br /> <br /> And, you're right on one count. Not everyone who kills is mentally healthy enough to make the decision to be a better person. Many of them are afraid of what it would do to them, or make them think they're not in control of their own minds anymore. They are often paranoid and delusional, and are suffering from psychosis that does not allow them to give consent to treatment. But, if they are in prison, or a treatment facility, for life, then they are not a threat to society.

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the families? yes i guess after some thought i would regret causing them grief, but it doesn't change the choice i made. the serial killer brought that on his or her self. more consideration and perhaps the family wouldn't be picking out a coffin. the other ways i look at include: #1 they would have died anyway. #2 that person doesn't belong on earth. #3 if a grieving family and some bloodshed on my governments hands is the price to pay, i'll pay it no hesitation. i can live with that for the rest of my life. <br /> <br /> as for you're medicate the high testosterone and low seritonin and dopamine levels::: they don't want it, they admit they would do it again, and it doesn't change anything. i know depressed and hostile people too, but they got help. they wanted help. we can't medicate them against their will.

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What I said stands for all killers. The serial variety included.<br /> <br /> Also, what Carni said. Lionel Dahmer cared about his son. Ted Bundy's grandparents loved him.<br /> <br /> The crimes they committed were atrocities, they were not good people by any means, but would you inflict similar on their families? What if they would have been helped, with proper treatment? Their families wouldn't have had to've gone through losing them, and they could have learned to regret their actions and might have been penitent. <br /> <br /> Studies have also shown that many serial killers have too high testosterone and too little serotonin and dopamine in their systems. Do you know how easy that is to fix? Some medication to fix the excesses and deficiencies, some therapy, and, well..<br /> <br /> Good chance you've got a very different person. But hey, go ahead, have them ride the lightning for the sake of a warped justice system.<br /> <br /> Also it's kinda handy to have some serial killers around to study them and learn from them to try to prevent it in the future. We've still got Charles Manson around, who's used for that purpose.

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inno, so where exactly do you stand? and carnival, i know how heartless this will sound, but im sure the family of the executed are better off. it's nice that they have the ability to love someone who is capable of unimaginable things, but in the end, the executed didn't really deserve any of that love. besides, how i look at it is: we all die anyway. now i already know how extremely heartless that makes me sound, but i just don't have much sympathy for people who deserve the death penalty. most of the time they're from an highly abusive background as well.

I already made my side of the debate in the other thread, but I did want to add something.<br /> <br /> People who kill are not orphans with absolutely no connections. Sometimes, sure, that's the case. But people often forget that by putting a killer to death, they are killing someone's son or daughter, husband or wife, father or mother, boyfriend or girlfriend, sister or brother, cousin, etc. And the family of the killer, though grieved by what their loved one has done, are being forced to experience the same loss as the victim's family even though the only thing -they- are guilty of is being related to them.<br /> <br /> It's just more pain piled on top of more pain, and I just can't consider that justice.

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I think the 'closure' people get from having a killer put to death is the fact they don't have to think about them, worry about them killing again(because who knows, they could break out of jail and attack again), and it just makes people feel safer knowing that they don't need to worry about that one person that harassed the family and killed a member.<br /> <br /> I'm afraid I would put death on someone who killed someone close to me, they made off with a life that I once knew and cherished.. the murderer might not be much of a person, and they don't mean crap to me, but their actions certainly did and those actions(especially if malicious) should be punished to the highest degree possible. Then I'll be satisfied and I'll feel safer.<br /> <br /> You'll find that a lot of the killers that kill with malicious intent don't reason, they don't seem to care about what choices they've made, a lot of them just want to kill more because they enjoyed it for some reason. Whatever it happens to be.