Theres a first time for everything, i agree with Nitrous. The dogs who place in trials have the higher TP. hence why they win. <br /> <br /> <br /> "It sucks to know that all those top dawgs are up there because of TP breeding and waterbowls - in other words, complete lack of effort. :/"<br /> <br /> It takes ALOT of effert to get a dog on the top dog list. My Dimi was on the top dog list for a little wile at number 10, hes no longer there because others have worked to breed for higher TP. I'm one of them, Dimi's puppies will hopefuly make the top dog list if even for a week. I dont buy waterbowls, i cant afford them. So training takes time and effert.

I support fully.<br /> <br /> And I also must state that trialing done properly can take a low TP dog far. Kaede, one of my older corgi, has a TP of 266 and she's on Toto level. I also have a number of sub-foundation TP dogs in Scooby and Odie. It takes thought and consideration to get them to that level. It's not impossible.

I agree with Shadow that it's not lack of effort that gets dogs on the Top Dawgs list. I've been working my Sheltie line since Shelties came out, and I've only used 3 Waterbowls in the 25+ dogs I've raised and bred. I'm very proud to have 3 dogs on the list.<br /> <br /> That being said, I really like this idea, but only if it doesn't replace the current list. There could be a TP list and a Trial Score list side by side or something.<br /> <br /> As for what Nitrous and Shadow mentioned, I disagree - you can win trials with low TP dogs if you're cautious about only entering trials with other low TP dogs or if you fill the trial with only your low TP dogs. If you're patient enough to do that, I think you certainly deserve a slot on a top trial dawg list. That being said, I agree that only high TP dogs will be on the list, but there will be more room for dedicated mid TP dogs to be on the list whereas that's impossible on the current setup.<br /> <br /> Last thing - there currently is a point to trial dogs because you can get a surprising amount of profit. :)

"Very much support. :) It sucks to know that all those top dawgs are up there because of TP breeding and waterbowls - in other words, complete lack of effort. :/"<br /> <br /> It's not exactly fair to say that top dawgs get there with 'lack of effort'. :| I started my shepherds with a foundation dog and his mate had 200ish tp. And now train my 4K+ shepherds without the use of waterbowls. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, because it most certainly does and it is annoying when someone passes you up by tossing a few waterbowls on their dogs, but a lot of people DO put effort into their top dogs.<br /> <br /> I'd like to see something changed but as Nitrous said, I don't think this change would make high TP dogs any less valuable, if not it'd make them more so. A low TP dog isn't going to win as much as one with high TP.<br /> <br />

I think it'll be better, because so far - Top Dawgs is for whoever can waterbowl 2500TP dogs first.

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Eh. I'm not sure this will work. What do you need to win trials? A higher TP and the most training. I think it'll end up being either the same or worse, because lower TP dogs won't win any trials, further promoting mass TP breeding and waterbowl usage.

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Yeah I agree Fyrella. I had a top dog once with around 300TP cause I maxed him.

Very much support. :) It sucks to know that all those top dawgs are up there because of TP breeding and waterbowls - in other words, complete lack of effort. :/<br /> <br /> Meanwhile someone like me who runs a tiny kennel and trials relentlessly... Well. I've only ever gotten one dog on the list and it was because borzoi had super low TP at the time.<br /> <br /> I will stop rambling now. Supportttt. &lt;33

Lol I have dogs that win trials but there's really no point to even having Firsts: Seconds: Thirds:

Support! This would probably mean I'd be 0 in all section's but I think it would help a lot.