07-23-2011 at 9:26 PM

Since the original poster says this isn't needed anymore, I am locking this thread.<br /> <br /> Thank you for all the comments, concerns, questions, etc.<br /> <br /> We can move on from here and let this be buried.

07-23-2011 at 1:16 PM

I didn't know it was being bumped o__O<br /> <br /> This topic isn't needed anymore, in my opinion.<br /> The staff really came through and I'm glad of all the changes they've made and I'm glad they're listening more to their users. <br />

07-23-2011 at 4:38 AM

Why does someone keep bumping this topic after it's been dead for a month? X}

06-15-2011 at 3:38 PM

I moderate on another site, yet I'm a player on many others. So I'm viewing this from both perspetives, not just a single side.<br /> <br /> I'd amazed at some of the responses here, to be frank. The key to a successful site is respect, in terms of a member base. This applies to both parties - users and mods. You cannot expect to be taken seriously, or to be respected yourself, if you cannot respect the staff members and display nothing but a hostile attitude. Likewise, you cannot hope to be a trusted and respected moderator if you treat your members like they have as much value as dirt.<br /> <br /> Not being an active player here, I cannot really comment on any intereaction between staff and members previous to this post, other than to express that on this post alone, I have seen nothing but civil attitudes from the staff members, albiet a tad frustrated.<br /> <br /> A couple of things struck me, though, that I want to voice my opinions on. Particularly this comment, here: <br /> "Mods, you've got a lot of upset players on your hands. And you keep barreling ahead, heeding none of it."<br /> <br /> Reading through this topic, what I've seen completely contradicts your words. I have seen users complaining, partly about things that honestly don't require their permission (the post edit topic) or approval, some users being civil whilst expressing their opinions or critiscm, and staff members responding to a variety of opinions or issues that players have raised. They've heeded your issues, they've responded to your complaints, and members are continuing to complain without listening to the explainations. So I would reverse that statement, and instead say that it is the players who are barelling ahead and heading none of it.<br /> <br /> That isn't to say some of the issues are unfounded. It is very important that members opinions are listened to, and that they are involved when changes re made that will actually effect them - like how the game-play functions. However, it is perfectly correct that members are not involved in every decision that is made - it is not, after all, your site, and you are not the ones running it. If artwork it changed that is out of date and not to the site standard, but you dislike it, then it's tough. You wont like everything that happens, but some people will. However, changing a single image will not drastically alter your life, or particularly effect you, and you are not being forced to look at it all day.<br /> <br /> And the other major issue was mods, and post edits, yes?<br /> "I cannot think of a single forum that does this, and I have no idea what you must be thinking to assume that this will go over well. "<br /> I can think of several. Vis-servo, for instance, allows mods to edit posts at will to remove or change anything they deem unsuitable. Furry-paws.com allows moderators to delete posts without seeking permission. <br /> The site I moderate on, also, allows moderators to edit posts at will. It works there, and we don't get complaints at all. So I see no reason as to why it shouldn't over here, aside from individual members believing they are above being corrected.<br /> <br /> Editing a post enable offensive or disallowed content to be removed on the spot - on Ala, it also enables a log to be created. It means that there is no waiting around for a member to co-operate, or get back online, and it offers a more effective method of discipline. Messaging a player asking them to change it does not teach them a lesson. It does not remind them that they have to follow the rules, and it does not show the moderators as people who should be respected. Prompt action is often required in the case of severe breaches - if someone has a flame post up, with all caps, swearing/name calling directed towards one player, then it should be removed ASAP. Not when the member feels like it. <br /> <br /> Finally, the last point that I want to address at the moment. <br /> How do you, as members that cannot access moderator's message/staff boards/staff chats/whatever Ala uses, say that nothing you report ot complain about it dealt with? When dealing with offences, including those of mods, the punishment (whether it be verbal or official warning, fine or ban) is not made public information. You cannot and do not know what goes on behind the scenes. Therefore, you do not know that nothing has been done, because you can't see that it is done. <br /> <br /> Cease assuming you know all the details, when you have no way to. I, myself, have dealt with a moderator that we recieved a complaint about, but the players were not told what was done, and the moderator in question was no de-moted. But they did recieve punishment/correction/whatever you want to call it. We dealt with it, even if the members didn't know.<br /> <br /> That's pretty much it. I forgot what else I was going to write. :D<br />

06-14-2011 at 7:12 PM

Why so serious? >:|<br /> <br /> Cervine, I would be more than happy to also look into your issue. Please feel free to private message me if you're not comfortable with the issue hub... although the issue hub is still the preferred method for submitting problems (just ask that the issue be bumped to the admins if you cannot post there directly).

06-14-2011 at 7:01 PM

Joking, Kael.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/5355/joker2.jpg">

06-14-2011 at 6:44 PM

Lol, Geist. That's epic. And I do have at least one date where it occured because I saved the PM I sent to Wysper in Word and I wrote it to her the day one of those events happened. I'll have to edit it in, though, cause I'm not at my computer.

06-14-2011 at 6:43 PM

Not quite, Geist :) Dates and times work as well for digging through the database.

06-14-2011 at 6:15 PM

<br><center><img src="http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9767/picsoritdidnthappen.jpg"></center><br /> <br><br /> <br>

06-14-2011 at 4:58 PM

<i>I've come across mods on here bashing users in chat and yelling at them, only for the reason that they are a mod.</i><br /> <br /> I would greatly appreciate seeing any kind of documentation or evidence to this effect. Screenshots or specific dates and times (so that we can look in the DB logs) would be the most beneficial. If, in fact, this is the case, something needs to be done about it. <br /> <br /> <i>And you better not stand up to them and defend the regular user like a good person would do, cause a mod is never wrong and you'll get banned from chat.</i><br /> <br /> The appropriate response in these situations would be to alert an administrator to the perceived abuse. Instigating a fight will not solve anything. Silently fuming about it will not solve anything. Being passive aggressive about it will not solve anything. Being open hostile and making accusations without some sort of proof will not solve anything. The key here is to be direct and factual so that action can be taken. <br /> <br /> Please remember that the staff are human. Mistakes will be made, misconceptions will occur, and oversights will happen. The important thing is that we need to be notified when there's a problem so that we can address it and minimize future occurrence. We are not psychic nor omniscient. The bottom line is that if we don't know there's a problem, we cannot fix it. <br />

06-14-2011 at 12:29 PM

Cervine, if the behavior you're talking about isn't documented(screen shots) and reported to the Admins nothing can be done about it. Personally I stay out of chat for the most part because of the disrespect I see and feel from many players toward the staff. I got sick of being talked down to or berated when dealing with a rule breaker so i just avoid it and deal with people outside the chat.

06-13-2011 at 6:44 PM

"If the former, that's just plain silly. You'd be more productive in flat out saying you don't appreciate a moderated community."<br /> <br /> Lol, stretching a bit there, aren't you? Twisting my words a lot. I never said that. Trust me, I've been on unmoderated communities and they freaking suck. I appreciate moderated communties, but only when the moderators can do their job. I've come across mods on here bashing users in chat and yelling at them, only for the reason that they are a mod. And you better not stand up to them and defend the regular user like a good person would do, cause a mod is never wrong and you'll get banned from chat. Which is a load of bull. I'm tired of seeing several mods in specific bashing users in chat and nothing being done about it. That's my problem here. I'm in several moderated communities, and I love them. Because the mods used to be plain old regular players, and they still act like them and still respect them. That's what I see lacking on here. From what I've seen, mods act like a higher class of users, like they are better than regular users. Which, especially when they act like that, they aren't. That's why I don't respect the mods. Not because I don't appreciate moderation, or because I have grudges against a few (which, I do, I admit), but because they act like they aren't part of the community. I think mods need to actually act human and like regular users before they can gain my respect, and the respect of a quite a few other users that I know about.<br /> <br /> Don't twist my words, cause I can twist right back if I need to.<br /> <br /> *Note: When I say the mods, I'm not talking about all mods. It's just easier to say than other llonger statements, so...yeah. But I don't hate all the mods, in reality.

06-13-2011 at 5:33 PM

Okay, this was mentioned beforehand, and unlike other users, I have no problem with it continuing. (The mods editing/deleting users posts.) I just think that it's not much use to the staff to see what has been said offensively by the user, and what was edited out. If anyone needs to learn anything, it's the user and other users. I'm not sure if it would actually help for <i>anyone</i> to see the offensive message that needed to be edited, but maybe there's some way that it could be used to help teach others.<br/><br/>And although many people are really angry at the way Ala's running things, I have to say, I have seen <i>much</i> worse. I used to be a member of a site where no players even knew how to become mods, and they literally just appeared. And on another site, the favoritism was overpowering. I had just as much or way more experience than most of the mods, and followed more rules than they did. But since they were best friends with the founder, they got to be mods. I think we should all take a moment and be happy that Ala has mods that do their job. I mean, no other site I know would allow threads like this. They take in a lot of feedback, for example: the different chats thing, deleting the map, seeing punishments for rules, they listen to us <i>a lot</i>. I do think some mods need to just cool down a bit, they're doing a pretty professional job at modding.

06-13-2011 at 1:02 PM

<i>"I miss the days when this site had good mods. Seriously, we don't anymore. Well, we still do, but it seems all mods that are actually good people are the ones who are never doing the moderating.</i><br /> <br /> This sounds a bit absurd to me. You're saying one of two things here... either that the good mods are the ones that aren't moderating or that you think the moderators that are moderating are bad on a personal level. If the former, that's just plain silly. You'd be more productive in flat out saying you don't appreciate a moderated community. While that's fine and dandy, that's never what a site which caters to a younger audience will be. If you are saying the latter, you're violating rules by taking a personal jab at someone you don't like (whether it's for enforcing rules or not). <br /> <br /> On the subject of editing versus deleting, I strongly believe in editing the posts. When a moderator edits a post, it leaves a record of what was there before. If there is any question about whether the mod's actions were necessary. It makes it easy to go back and verify the action was necessary, or to restore the post if the mod was out of line. I do also believe in giving the member the opportunity to edit their post themselves, but this is not always feasible. In the case of inflammatory statements and personal attacks, it's important to diffuse the situation quickly--the hour or two which it could take a player to edit their own content could make a huge difference in a volatile situation. <br /> <br /> That's just my couple pennies.

06-12-2011 at 1:34 PM

Can I just say this? The staff on Ala is a million times better than another site I played years ago (now no longer in existence). Mods were chosen because they were the owner's friends. Members got away with things if they were friends with the mods or owner. There was so much favoritism going on, it was ridiculous. Players tried to suck up to the mods and owner so they wouldn't get in trouble. It was chaos on that site. Completely chaos. The mods never did their job, and they went on banning sprees whenever they felt like it.<br /> <br /> I only say that to say this: Be thankful that we're trying to do our job. You may not like how we do it, but understand we're trying the best we can, and as Wysper said, we can't please everyone. Someone is bound to be unhappy.<br /> <br /> Wysper doesn't pick mods because they're her friends. She picks them because they can do a good job. It's hard sometimes on here. You have to deal with a lot of drama. Players begin to hate you. Just understand that Wysper is always open to new ideas, and so are the rest of us.

06-12-2011 at 5:28 AM

Yes, yes. Just curious. The mod team is very small.

06-12-2011 at 5:21 AM

Polls are for everyone to vote on.<br /> <br /> Regardless of being a mod or not, they are still player's and have a voice to be heard.<br /> <br /> There are only so many mods. It won't affect the outcome of the votes.<br /> <br />

06-12-2011 at 5:14 AM

Just wondering, are mods voting in this poll, or is it just the userbase? As the users are the ones affected by the editing and not the mods. Color me curious.

06-12-2011 at 4:23 AM

I have put up a new poll to get the player input on how best to handle posts that require changes. Please take the time to vote on it.<br /> <br /> I understand that there may be some questions about the 1 hour limit to 2 of the options. However, if someone is bad enough to require to be changed, it should not be up in the first place. So, the time limit is required.<br /> <br /> I'm not stomping my foot, and I am not opposed to changes. <br /> <br /> It's just not always easy to come to a conclusion of what is best for everyone on a site. With over 15 thousand accounts, that is a lot of people to try and make happy.<br /> <br /> ^..^<br /> Wysper<br /> <br />

06-12-2011 at 3:52 AM

Mods, you've got a lot of upset players on your hands. And you keep barreling ahead, heeding none of it.<br /> <br /> Regarding "censorship," it is. You are removing previous freedoms we had because of a few bad eggs. This is censoring. People tend to not like it.<br /> <br /> "We have young children that play this game,"<br /> <br /> Look, Alacrity has a 13 age limit, excluding those users who have parents sign them in. The parents and the children are accepting that they will see things a 13 year old can handle. We don't needle to coddle the wee ones, they accepted the TOS. When users get in a tiff, do your job and handle it maturely rather than running around and nuking out pieces of, or entire, posts. I've been a mod/admin, too. I'm not just talking out of my backside, here.<br /> <br /> "I'm sorry.<br /> <br /> Mod's editing user posts that are blatantly against the rules, harassing, provoking, or just down right mean will continue.<br /> <br /> If you don't like it? Stop posting things that require editing."<br /> <br /> I'm sorry, Wysper, I like you. But this logic doesn't really work. See, I haven't had any of my posts edited, and I still really, <b><u>really do not like it.</b></u> You're making people angry. Alacrity runs on happiness. It, you know, keeps donating members around that keep the site afloat and puts money in <i>your</i> pocket, too. This is one of the most astoundingly bad business moves I've ever seen. <br /> <br /> "This post seems to have deviated from it's original intent, and has become more of a "Flame the Staff" thread."<br /> <br /> No. We are critisizing the bad choices made by staff, which is the entire point of this thread. It is perfectly on topic. Don't shut this one down, too, because you can't handle the heat you made for yourself. It is critique, and constructive at that; we're trying to tell you how to fix it. Disagreeing with you != flaming, which a lot of people on the internet need to learn.. Ala staff apparently, as well.<br /> <br /> You stamping your foot down and saying "nope, not gonna change it!" isn't looking good on you, Wysper. As the head mod, not only is it your duty to watch out for trouble players, but to try to keep everything running smoothly. At the moment, you've just thrown a wrench in the gears.<br /> <br /> And yes, I know staff gets punished, too, just to get that out of the way. I know one was completely demoted. <br /> <br /> Let me reiterate: STOP. Oh my god, stop.