06-8-2011 at 3:17 AM

<b>If people cannot remain civil in this debate, it will be closed. Stop attacking each other, read over the rules of this forum and the site. Remember respect. If you cannot do this, leave or understand rule breaking will be taken seriously and punished.</b>

06-8-2011 at 3:13 AM

[removed by mod] <br /> <br /> Killing a baby is bad. Aborting a fetus is completely and utterly different.<br /> <br /> Fetus=BABY make the connection <br /> <br /> f you dislike abortion so much, start advertising for teaching safe sex.<br /> <br /> [removed by mod].<br /> <br /> [removed by mod]

06-8-2011 at 3:05 AM

Your first paragraph there made no sense. Science calls a fetus a fetus because that is what it scientifically is. Scientifically it is not a baby yet. Do you know anything about science? Call it a baby all you want, it is still technically a fetus.<br /> <br /> "There is no rehabilitashion BECAUSE that person is ovsley not in tuch with any human emotion. "<br /> <br /> [removed by mod] Second off, that is not true. Yeah, mass murder is bad. It doesn't always actually mean that they are out of touch with emotion. Thirdly, why are you even going to bother bringing that into here when there is another debate open for this?<br /> <br /> "Its ok you lost all respect from me when you condoned baby killing. "<br /> <br /> [removed by mod] I don't condone baby killing. Killing a baby is bad. Aborting a fetus is completely and utterly different. Of course, this is beside the fact that I don't actually like abortion. I don't get up in the morning asking how many babies will die that day. Or how many fetuses will be aborted. A fetus is not a human. [removed by mod]<br /> <br /> [removed by mod].<br /> <br /> If you dislike abortion so much, start advertising for teaching safe sex. Because teaching kids about protection is going to prevent unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions. Stop [removed by mod] trying to ban abortions, and actually do something that will help.<br /> <br /> Actually, let me dig up a Skype conversation I had with a friend forever ago about this.<br /> <br /> "[9:54:57 PM] Holmes: ....If I see one more, "Be glad your mom is pro-life" thing, I swear I'm going to hurt someone.<br /> [9:55:51 PM] Kade: I'm pro-life. That's why I don't like wars... ._____.<br /> [9:57:10 PM] Holmes: I'm just so sick of stupid arguments like that. Especially considering my mom is pro-choice. And I'm pro-life too. I oppose war, I oppose the death penalty, and abortion is not murder. Considering taking the choice away from women could kill them in illegal abortions, pro-choice is pro-woman.<br /> [9:58:27 PM] Kade: Pro-choice is pro-women which is pro-sex which is, in turn, pro-life. :D?<br /> [9:59:18 PM] Holmes: YES. I like that! And it's pro-sex education (cause I see a lot of pro-lifers who don't want to teach safe sex), which is a way to prevent STIs, which prevents death or serious illness, therefore pro-life as well.:3"<br /> (I'm Holmes, Kade is my friend.)

06-8-2011 at 2:52 AM

You can also pitch as much of a fit about it being "murder" as you want. It simply isn't, and science proves that.<br /> <br /> No it dosent, science just gives the baby and thats what it is a BABY a different name so you can decencitize yourself to the truth. That you are chooseing to MURDER your own child. <br /> <br /> How is that better than terminating BEFORE it's an actual life?<br /> <br /> READ ABOVE<br /> <br /> Yet it's okay for people to pop out a child and sponge off the government instead of taking the responsbility/consequences and paying for it themselves.<br /> <br /> Try and read my ACCUAL post before jumping to conclushions. It might help you understand. <br /> <br /> If you go get in your car and accidently get in a wreck and kill someone, you should be held responsible and be put to death yourself.(As per what you posted in the capital punishment post, all murderers should die.) <br /> <br /> Wow once again you did NOT read the entire post just the parts you think you can argue to. People who go around MASS MURDERING others should receve the death penelty. There is no rehabilitashion BECAUSE that person is ovsley not in tuch with any human emotion. <br /> <br /> That tiny, microscopic bit of respect I had for you was just set on fire and thrown out the window.<br /> <br /> Its ok you lost all respect from me when you condoned baby killing. <br /> <br /> And if you are criticizing her parents, that's just rude. You are doing it just to spite her and I could just as easily criticize your children for no reason whatsoever, but I won't<br /> <br /> No acculey its relevent to the conversation. See parents who arnt responcible for the chirldren and allow them to run around haveing sex at such a young age are the cause of abortions. More unwed teenage girls get abortions that woman, and i do meen accual woman not the oooh but im 17 im a woman now kind. <br /> <br /> They shouldn't be forced to have the child. No one should be forced to do anything.<br /> <br /> oooh ok so whipe the slate clean give them a cookie or a sticker and send them on there marry way, do you REALLY think thats going to work? No one FORCED her to choose to have sex now did they? She had the idea that she was responcible enough to have sex so she did, now lets look at this more than one way. IF her partner had some kind of STD would a doctor be able to whipe that away? NO he wouldnt have. it is a conaquence of sex. If you believe you are grown up enough to have sex then YOU should be held responcible for your actions and have that child if you get pregnet, regardless of age.<br /> <br />

06-8-2011 at 12:39 AM

<b>Attention! Please remember not to criticize other members and please remember not to take things to personally. If you put in personal anecdotes and examples they could be criticized! Remember to be civil and polite</b> :D

06-8-2011 at 12:27 AM

You say if someone has an accident and gets knocked up, that they should have to deal with the consequences themselves no matter what damage it may do to the mother OR the child, long or short term. Yet it's okay for people to pop out a child and sponge off the government instead of taking the responsbility/consequences and paying for it themselves. You do realize how very hypocritical you are being right?<br /> <br />Let me give you a scenario so that maybe, just maybe, you can wrap your head around this. If you go get in your car and accidently get in a wreck and kill someone, you should be held responsible and be put to death yourself. (As per what you posted in the capital punishment post, all murderers should die.) After all, you messed up so you should have to deal with the consequences (being put to death) am I right? That's exactly what you are saying about people who have abortions.<br /> <br /> You can also pitch as much of a fit about it being "murder" as you want. It simply isn't, and science proves that. I can claim the sky is purple and the grass is orange, but that doesn't make it actually true. <br /> <br /> By saying you are not okay with abortion and people should be forced to deal, you are saying that you are perfectly okay with already born children (who can think and feel) being resented, mistreated, abused (physically or mentally), and possibly murdered (sometimes in insanely brutal ways). .How is that better than terminating BEFORE it's an actual life? It isn't, not by any means.<br /><br />

06-8-2011 at 12:15 AM

No, anything in this thread is fair game for the debate. Not for insult and complete criticizing of family members. She didn't insult your children, so you shouldn't insult her parents. She brought up your children in a reasonable way. Bring what she said about her parents into the topic reasonably and we wouldn't be having this argument.<br /> <br /> I'm not looking the other way. But yeah, let's put a 14 year old through the wonderful pain of childbirth. That'll be a great experience for her. Uh...no. I don't think anyone should have sex that young, but if they do? They shouldn't be forced to have the child. No one should be forced to do anything. And so you are saying that a 14 year old has perfect judgement? Because they don't. If she got pregnant, I'm betting she didn't think her way through enough to use protection. A lot of the 14 year olds I know don't have any actual teaching about safe sex, therefore they'll rely on false ideas such as the pull-out method. <br /> <br /> Wow. They didn't try hard enough? I'm not even going to freaking touch that. That tiny, microscopic bit of respect I had for you was just set on fire and thrown out the window. They didn't try hard enough? How do you know how hard they tried? Have you done any research into this. Let's put it in a way that will hopefully get through your thick skull. Just because say, you can do math, that doesn't mean I can do it. Just because I know how to play a certain video game doesn't mean my friend does. And if I fail at math, it doesn't mean I didn't try hard enough. It's the same with parenting. Not everyone can do it.<br /> <br /> And if you are criticizing her parents, that's just rude. You are doing it just to spite her and I could just as easily criticize your children for no reason whatsoever, but I won't. Because I'm not completely rude.

06-7-2011 at 11:51 PM

And anything brought into this debate is fair game. But you are criticizing her parent's decisions, when she simply mentioned your kids. I think you are the one bordering on rude at this moment. But if you didn't want your kids being talked about, you shouldn't have brought them up.<br /> <br /> Then maybe she shouldn't have brought up her parents.<br /> <br /> A clump of cells a few weeks old is more important than a living, breathing woman who could be as young as 14 or 15?<br /> <br /> If she messed up she has to take responcibility for her actions. its just a WOW thing for me that you are willing to turn and look the other way because "oh well shes young, she might have it hard...she might have to wate on things she wants to do..." She ovsley wanted to have sex. Shes pregnet isnt she? She considers herself responcible enough to go out and have sex, then theres no reason why she isn't responcible enough to have the child. Why on this earth would you look the other way simply because one has been here longer? <br /> <br /> But you are criticizing her parent's decisions, when she simply mentioned your kids.<br /> <br /> Yeah i am and to quote her. "so I will continue to talk about your kids however I see fit." Replace kids with parents. <br /> <br /> Not everyone can do it just because they believe they can. There are a lot of people who tried incredibly hard, and then crashed and burned in the end.<br /> <br /> They didnt try hard enough. If you want to do something bad enough you will do it. If they crashed and burned its there own falt.

06-7-2011 at 11:40 PM

You really don't get it. Not everyone can do it just because they believe they can. There are a lot of people who tried incredibly hard, and then crashed and burned in the end. NOT EVERYONE CAN DO IT. I don't know how much more clear I can make it.<br /> <br /> Also, let me get this straight. A clump of cells a few weeks old is more important than a living, breathing woman who could be as young as 14 or 15? Just wow. Really? That's just freaking awful to think that. The woman, being you know actually alive, has and deserves more rights than the not yet living fetus who can't feel or think.<br /> <br /> And anything brought into this debate is fair game. But you are criticizing her parent's decisions, when she simply mentioned your kids. I think you are the one bordering on rude at this moment. But if you didn't want your kids being talked about, you shouldn't have brought them up.

06-7-2011 at 11:30 PM

Also, you make it sound like if someone can't do it, that they are horrible people, which they aren't. It isn't their fault at all.<br /> <br /> Everyone CAN do it if they are deturmed enough to do it. Giveing up is a option most choose and its out of weakness. <br /> <br /> <br /> Because you're too attached to the fact that a few week old clump of cells may become a baby someday, you're forgetting to realize what that child's entire life will be like.<br /> <br /> <br /> I'll go ahead and quote you directly "you're forgetting to realize what that child's entire life will be like." Whos to say the child wont have a good life? You? Because your so shure death is the ancwer for that child because the mom may have it hard? Its not about the mom, its about the kid, a unborn baby with no end of potenchal in sight. Oh but lets just kill it because the "mom" dosent want the responcibility. And thats what it all boils down to. <br /> <br /> but you're only considering the short term.<br /> <br /> No acculy i gave a lot of exsample of government programs designed to help the single mom. There not designed for long turm situations, simply short turm, to get the mom the schooling she needs to help give her child a better life. READ before jumping to assunmptions. <br /> <br /> Actually, you brought them up, so I will continue to talk about your kids however I see fit.<br /> <br /> Well since you brought your parents into a debate shal we talk about them? You know where most abortions come from? Unwed teenage mothers. At what age again did your parents say it was ok for you to go out and have sex? 14 right? very responcible *just so you know that's sarcasim*

06-7-2011 at 9:38 PM

"it's possible. a baby doesn't have to hold a mother back."<br /> <br /> It sounds like you're insinuating that children aren't a big responsibility. They are a <i>huge</i> responsibility. If you don't take it seriously, the Government will step in for you, again, paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for something that could have cost in the hundreds if you didn't want the child. You're making the Government pay for your "mistakes", AGAIN. The difference this time is you're sentencing the child to a potentially less than ideal life and draining Gov't. budget. Not all mothers are capable of what you're suggesting, very, very few single ones can. So, what? We should just force them to have a child they don't want/aren't prepared for and see how it goes because one in the millions will be ok? You know who suffers the most in that situation? <i>The child</i>. You claim that you're anti-abortion for the children, but you're only considering the short term. Because you're too attached to the fact that a few week old clump of cells <b>may</b> become a baby someday, you're forgetting to realize what that child's entire life will be like.<br /> <br /> "That was a post about my personal acheavement, not my kids. You dont have the right to speak of my kids. "<br /> <br /> Actually, you brought them up, so I will continue to talk about your kids however I see fit. I can only go off what you tell me about them, and as far as this point it's been more than enough to refute anything you were capable of constructing out of the argument.<br />

06-7-2011 at 8:20 PM

"That was a post about my personal acheavement, not my kids. You dont have the right to speak of my kids."<br /> <br /> That's still bringing your kids into the argument. And actually, you brought it up, so yeah, she does have the right to speak about them. And the way you talk makes it seem like if you can do it, anyone can. Which is not true. Some people don't have the financial support to do it, and some just don't have the determination to do it. Also, you make it sound like if someone can't do it, that they are horrible people, which they aren't. It isn't their fault at all.

06-7-2011 at 4:57 PM

Please don't compare unintentional pregnancy to getting drunk and robbing a bank. Please please please please.<br /> <br /> Why? You get drunk, you get pregnet, the government "fixes" it for you by killing it, Oopsy...i was drunk its not MY falt...Its ok though because i can have it all eraced by going in and getting an aborshion.<br /> <br /> O Gee judge i was drunk, i cant be held responcible for my actions in a drunken state. Just wipe the slate clean for me.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> You actually did, because when you brought up the fact that you "still graduated college with three kids", you brought up your kids...well, right there.<br /> <br /> <br /> That was a post about my personal acheavement, not my kids. You dont have the right to speak of my kids.

06-7-2011 at 3:41 AM

***yes, it's not a life Now, but it will be*** and as for that, yes to some subjects our governemnt is a coward to face but that does not mean they can ignore we want. just because our government is homophobic and they don't have the balls to realize they're going against the constitution in several ways just because they are afraid of gay marriage does not mean they can just say our votes don't matter and they can do as they please. we wont allow it. thats not why my grandfather and my two brothers fought and are fighting for this country.

06-7-2011 at 3:36 AM

It's not taking away a life. It can't think, it can't feel, it can't anything. Take it out of the womb and it dies. I don't consider it a life until it can survive outside the womb. And the majority of people don't want abortion gone, especially with the fact that if it was illegal, it would still be happening. And illegal abortions are horrible. Heck, if America was truly going by majority rule, gay marriage would be legal by now. (Over 50% of Americans in a recent poll said they were for gay marriage.) I don't think people wanting abortion gone is going to work. Look at the last year, with all the horrible anti-choice laws that rose up. Look how quickly they were stricken down by the majority, especially with all the marches and protests.

06-7-2011 at 3:29 AM

but they never Know that they can't, however sadly you're absolutely right. if they don't want to try, no one can make them. it's sad a life has to be lossed out of lack of perseverence to some certainly. and why do we judge them since it doesn't involve us? because The People should be running this country and if the majority thinks we should make abortion illegal in order to encourage mothers to try, then it should be done. however, i am against taking away choice. it's something i like to refer to as an impass.

06-7-2011 at 3:24 AM

I have nothing against single moms. My mom is a single mom and had me when she was in college. She's never been married and, while my dad helps with paying for some health related things, and I do see him often, my mom is the main source of everything in my life. And I've grown up in a fairly wonderful environment. No matter how much I complain about her (which is sometimes a lot), she still did a great job raising me.<br /> <br /> I'm not saying no one can do it. Some mothers can. But the point is that some mothers can't. Sure, you won't know which is which if they don't try. But they shouldn't have to try if they don't want to. If they know they can't achieve their goals with an unplanned child, then it is their choice to abort. If they think they can, then they can have the child and try. Point is, it's not our place to judge them. Basically, let them do what they want as long as they aren't harming anyone, and having an early abortion does not harm anyone.<br /> <br /> I think all this boils down to really is that if it doesn't personally affect you, why the heck are you making such a big deal about it? It comes down to trying to control others' lives, which is a bad idea and does not make you look like a great person. (Not talking to anyone personally here.>.>; I tend to say "you" a lot in debates.)

06-7-2011 at 3:17 AM

Dear Jesus people, (sorry if my saying jesus insults or offends you, pay no attention to the word) i am seeing Too much attitude. i'd appreciate if you could be a bigger person and let it roll off your back. now for a response: Im going to tell you something a mentor told me: you miss one hundred percent of the shots you never take. i believe it's Very important they try because they never know how it can turn out. this is america, a country of possibilities. so it's not Impossible for Any mother to do Anything. i know most of my readers are skeptical of this, but please have faith in the mothers ability. it's possible. a baby doesn't have to hold a mother back. and for those of you saying "well i hate the fact taht i have to pay taxes that go towards things i don't agree with" well this is a democratic thing. where people do what the majority of the people want in order to help certain agendas. im terribly sorry you hate where youre hard earned money is spent, but you can always vote for a representative that you do agree with so you'll agree with where he says your money should go. (i know that doesn't mean said representative will win but still thats how it works). that's this country's way. we do what the majority wants. and to be frank, ***let's not blame the kid because the parent is a leech*** just because parents have kids for the government's money, does not make the child guilty or deserve Death. our governement needs to be wiser and put more effort into deciding if the mother deserves it, and saying no to a scamming mother. and also, yes it does make you grow up very fast, but that's a positive thing is some/most cases. im sorry that you're case was so missfortunate, SixthSatan. but it's not exactly over yet. remain positive, maybe the best has yet to come. i believe it all comes down to how seriously you value oppertunity. people who say it's not killing anyone just a lump of cells, probably doesn't think the fact that it has a future matters, which is Ok, because it's about the now, and the fetus now, is oppertunity-less. people who say it is killing someone, probably say that because it Can be a human and have a future in just a short time (well... maybe not so short depending on how you look at time). Now of course, this rule doesn't apply to all people, i know that. some of you may be exceptions.

06-6-2011 at 7:40 PM

"wow ok i didnt go to school online, i went to the accual school. Oh and you can do the same with the government grants. Oh and just as we are on the subject, i highly dought you went to Harvered as well. so its not just me who didnt go."<br /> <br /> I'm not <i>old enough</i> to be at Harvard yet, but nice try. I am applying, and if not for college I'll be there for law school. And again, that means you went to a community college which was in fact included in my argument. Just because I haven't <i>yet</i> attended Harvard, it doesn't make the fact that you went to community college as impressive as you'd like it to be. <br /> <br /> "Oh and leave my kids out of this please. I did not bring them up once on this thred. If i had i would have no issues with it, but i didnt."<br /> <br /> You actually did, because when you brought up the fact that you "still graduated college with three kids", you brought up your kids...well, right there.

06-6-2011 at 2:31 PM

Someone mentioned something about a judge letting people off, well in my Province a manwhoa thered a woman, told the judge "Ooops, I didn't mean to, I was "randy" and she was dressed provocatively and kissed me." She still said "No!", and he admitted this, but he got off on a lesser charge. Judge was reprimanded later as investigation was looked in to.<br /> <br /> On topic though, I had my child at 19 and am now 23. If I could go back I wouldn't have had him. Honestly, "living with the consequences" is great to say if you've never been in the position, but I'll tell you that with Abortion comes emotional and sometimes even physical consequences, so either way you play that card there will be consequences. I think the consequences to my child of me keeping him are worse than they are for me however. I was not ready, still am not ready. Myself and spouse work Full-Time jobs that do not coincide with each other, so my son spends a lot of time at his Grandmothers due to this, and I won't even get in to the baby blues/postpartum/<i>resentment</i> I felt towards him when he was an infant. Let me tell you I am not proud of that time at all, and my son was the ONLY one to pay for my actions, that is not fair to him. I deserve no mother of the year or even of the day award. I never wanted to be a mother, and I still don't want to be a mother.. I wish I thought more about it, but even 4 years ago I was less mature than I am now, and having a child grows you up way too fast. <br /> <br /> This testimony is coming from a financially stable family to boot, so there really is all kinds of people that end up in these predicaments.<br /> <br /> <br />