06-17-2011 at 6:07 AM

im not talking about situations where the mother will die if she doesn't abort. and no i don't think thats fair just because the mother can say what she wants and the fetus cants, her way goes. frankly we talked this to death and are going in circles. if someone new has anything to add they are of course welcomed to but i think you and i are done here cervine

06-17-2011 at 12:41 AM

I think I've stated this before, but it's because a human being that is already living has more value than something that will grow into a fetus.

06-17-2011 at 12:20 AM

what's the reason why it's not important that the fetus Will be a human ???

06-16-2011 at 3:06 AM

Sure, but we are clumps of cells that have a definite shape and have feelings and thoughts.

06-16-2011 at 2:57 AM

you know what i say to that "it's a clump of cells" well i don't know about you, but technically im a clump of cells. right down to it we're all clumps of cells.

06-15-2011 at 10:21 PM

I'm pro-abortion. I think there are too many people in the world. Nuff said.

06-15-2011 at 5:18 AM

diety i know it doesn't make it true and i know people believe different things i never said otherwise. and thatgirlpossessed, thank you for your response i agree and im terribly sorry for what you've been through, just know that while hardly few could understand, we honor how strong you must be and sympathize for your troubled past.

06-14-2011 at 6:34 PM

I am one of those people that sort of hangs in the gray. <br /> I believe the mother of the child comes first, her safety and welfare above all else. That is unconditional for me. If terminating the baby is the cost of that - so be it. She will be able to have other children in the future - and if not, she can adopt and become a mother for a child who did not have one before.<br /> The "inconvenience" issue is something I do not approve of, unless the problem is something more than an "inconvenience". An example of this would be a financial situation, family matters, cult standards (this includes religion, all religion, by definition, is a cult), and things like that. While I personally think religion is silly, I do recognize that it is a big momentum of many people's lives and must be taken into account.<br /> I do support abortion inwhoa there situations. I have been a victim, but not at an age where I could bear a child. It is traumatic and the stress and memories haunt you for the rest of your life. The last thing you would want is a reminder, or something that might have looked like your attacker. If the child cannot be loved, then, better to save it a life of misery.<br /> I am against foster homes and the whole adoption system. I've seen firsthand what it does to people, in any generation. My adoptive father's mother is insane, manipulative, and controlling because of the abuse and lack of human compassion she received in the homes she lived in. My adoptive dad is sociopath. A lot of socially challenged people (all different spectrum of the black and white) are in a rut and pulling others into it because of the lack of humanity the received as a child, knowing that they were unwanted, unloved, something to be "delt" with, rather than to be taken care of. While I know that not all foster homes are this way - government homes included - a lot of them are and the statistics and stories and actual people are a negative mark on the whole idea of adoption.<br /> I am not against adoption itself, it is a wonderful idea, it's just that adoption is just that: an idea we've yet to accomplish entirely.<br /> <br /> I am a strong pro-choice. I would much rather have a human life be extinguished to watch them and the ones around them suffer. In my opinion, death is a gift, not a punishment.<br /> <br /> (Sorry if this doesn't make sense, people tell me that I don't a lot.)

06-14-2011 at 3:59 AM

You can believe whatever you like.<br /> <br /> I only offer scientific facts. You can take them or leave them, but it doesn't change the reality of things.

06-14-2011 at 3:37 AM

"God knows what."<br /> <br /> Uh...that makes no sense. Care to elaborate?<br /> <br /> Also, just because you believe something, two things:<br /> <br /> A.) It doesn't mean that it's true.<br /> B.) Not everyone believes the same things.

06-14-2011 at 3:22 AM

no i don't believe that. i believe that a soul was waiting to go into that body and once the fetus is aborted God knows what.

06-14-2011 at 3:17 AM

Science -can- prove that a fetus has no brain activity, especially when the brain hasn't even developed at all, or at least to the point that the fetus is capable of any type of self awareness, thought, or instinctual drives. It's pretty much on par with an inanimate object during the fetal stages, up until the point the body and brain are developed enough that human thought and awareness is possible.<br /> <br /> Even the common human perception of a "soul" has everything to do with our brains. Who we are, and our personality, has entirely everything to do with our brain activity.<br /> <br /> The point I'm making is, until a fetus has a developed and fully functioning brain, they are not a person. They don't even have a personality, they don't think or feel. <br /> <br /> And before anyone tries to argue "well what about people in comas, or are mentally deficient in some way?" that's not the same thing. A person in a coma still shows signs of frequent brain activity. Even a mentally challenged person still has a personality and self awareness. But when someone is brain dead, when no activity is occurring, there's a reason they're called a "vegetable." They cease to exist as a person, because their personality, their memories, their self awareness, is completely gone. All that's left is the brain telling the heart to beat and the lungs to breathe, etc. But nothing of substance is going on in the brain. They simply exist, just like a fetus simply exists.<br /> <br /> To me, aborting a fetus is on par with plucking a flower. Some people may think it's pretty or "precious," and both are -forms- of life, but neither has a personality, or a string of thought, and among the millions like it all across the globe, it is insubstantial, and its loss will no more affect the rest of its kind as removing a grain of sand from a beach would put the beach at risk.<br /> <br /> We have overpopulated the planet, even the basic things we need to survive like fresh, safe water are coming under threat. I definitely don't support murder or war or vengeance, I don't believe in snuffing out the lives of people with experiences and thoughts and feelings, even if it's someone who, by some standards, "deserve" death. But aborting a fetus before it can even think, I feel, is harmless to our species in the long run. I'm not saying "abort ALL babies" but I do think that if a woman makes that choice, for whatever reason, she should have the right to that choice and shouldn't have to feel ashamed or feel like she did something wrong.

06-14-2011 at 3:10 AM

Oh my...*facepalm* Wow.<br /> <br /> I actually believe in the soul, but I don't believe the fetus gains a soul until after birth.

06-14-2011 at 3:02 AM

the soul, the soul that was going to go into that fetus cares.

06-14-2011 at 2:54 AM

How can they care? They weren't born! They cannot think and they cannot feel. They cannot care. The mother, however, who is already alive, can and does care. There's a difference between a clump of cells and a living woman.

06-14-2011 at 2:33 AM

you can't prove that, i think they do care. and yah i do, because that clump of cells is innocent.

06-14-2011 at 2:02 AM

See, here's the problem. If they had been aborted, they wouldn't care. Because they wouldn't exist to care. They never would be able to think, "Gee, I wish I'd been born!" because they wouldn't be able to think. That's the problem here. You get all upset over a clump of cells being aborted than you do about actual human beings on death row.

06-14-2011 at 1:50 AM

i've been prochoice this entire time, not once did i say they shouldn't have a choice. im just more prolife than i am prochoice. meaning id rather abortions not be as common as they are, i'd rather abortions be rare, i'd want parents to be to change their mind. i have friends who are foster children along with the rest of their twelve foster sibling and they all say they'd rather be in foster care than have been aborted. childhood is a small chapter in life, theres more to come once 18 and yes it leaves a scar, but i believe that's what makes people stronger. and can you stop "lol fail"-ing me please? i find it highly offensive.

06-14-2011 at 1:40 AM

"Deity that's a lot of tough talk show me your statistics if you did more research in one day than i did in a lifetime, because you know my life so well. treading on Thin ice, we are, Diety."<br /> <br /> Lol fail. Fine. Point out exactly which stories and statistics you want and I'll go grab them for you. Although, I think you should be doing the same. Also, you have claimed statistics in the past. I'm not going to bother finding them, cause I have more important things to do than debate this with you. (Like Minecraft.)<br /> <br /> Also, there's adoption for that reason. So people who can't have kids (infertile, gay couple, etc.) can have children. But we are in no way at risk of not having children for these families to adopt. There are way too maaany children in the system who will never find homes. So, saying to just dump the unwanted babies into the twisted adoption system would not be good. <br /> <br /> Well, good for you if you wouldn't abort it. No one really cares. That's your CHOICE. Just like it's other people's CHOICE to abort the fetus. They let you have your CHOICE, so let them have theirs.

06-14-2011 at 12:58 AM

Deity that's a lot of tough talk show me your statistics if you did more research in one day than i did in a lifetime, because you know my life so well. treading on Thin ice, we are, Diety. and i don't got statistics, because i never said i had statistics to back me up, that was you. if you don't want to show them, fine but don't expect me to take your word for it. Don't take away the choice because i understand sometimes its necessary but unless you think it's one thousand percent necessary id rather you try and tough it out and because you never know if you were meant to have this baby in this situation. maybe im speaking from the point that i can't have children. not because im not fertile or from a previous miscarriage, but because i have a genetic problem inheritted from my mother. i can have the baby, but the extreme 'temporary' diseases i'll have to fight will kill me in the process. i just see any potential life as so valuable, such a gift, but not all parents to be see it the equation to be as happy as i do. sometimes the variables in the equation do not suffice their standards which i can respect since my high standards on so many things have rewarded me and bit me, it's good to have high standards im sure. in the end, i like what Rooster said, it's shocking how they said: "and honestly it terrifies me to hear people say "If I got pregnant today, I'd just get an abortion" - like it's nothing. Even if it is just a clump of cells, it's cells that contain your DNA and your partner's (lover's? husband's?) DNA. It's a part of you, even if it does look like a kidney bean... " and to answer any curious minds, if my birth control failed and i got pregnant i would not abort it. yes most people would say in my case it would be considered a tumor, but not in my eyes. i can live through it, the odds are just slim. slim and impossible are two different things in my eyes.