06-12-2011 at 11:34 PM

First things first, I believe women should have the <i>Choice</i> of whether or not they want to have an abortion. It's her <i>choice</i>. I do not think illegalizing it is gonna help anything, because the "hanger" might come back to haunt us.<br /> <br /> And for those who are pro-life I just want to say that most pro-choice people I know don't like the idea of an abortion per se. But they like the <i>choice</i> of what they can do with it.

06-11-2011 at 4:18 PM

"#1. They don't know they 'can't' do it until they tried. i think you're being too negative or i guess i have an extreme amount of faith in them. i think people can do anything they set their minds to."<br /> <br /> Except, you know. They can't. I love that excuse, cause it's a load of bull. I can set my mind on becoming president and work harder than anyone ever did to try and achieve this, but that doesn't mean anything. I'll never be president, and I know this. And some parents can't do it. There's nothing wrong with that. But look it up, there are plenty of parents who are unable to do it.<br /> <br /> "#3 You Totally Twisted my words. i asked if you had statistics to Back it up. how could i accuse you of making up statistics if you never even mentioned statistics????? and i think you're making excuses. saying i'd ''ignore'' it is probably an excuse because you're afraid of what you'll find. ;)"<br /> <br /> Wow, fail. I'm not afraid of anything. I've done more research in a day on this subject than you probably have in your entire life. I research things like this in my spare time all the freaking time. I know what I'm talking about. Also, you keep talking about statistics yourself. And yet, you have none to show for it. Hm...might want to work on resolving that first.

06-11-2011 at 2:49 PM

I'm still pro-life because I think a fetus is a baby (it's just the way I was raised), but I'm also pro-choice as well. I think women deserve to decide if they want to carry a baby to term even if it might kill them. If they choose to abort to save themselves, then so be it. As far as Inno's argument goes, I can see the validity there - if your mother had aborted you, "you" may have been born into a different family, a different time...something. And you're right - if your mother aborted you, you wouldn't have known.<br /> <br /> I'm still against it, and honestly it terrifies me to hear people say "If I got pregnant today, I'd just get an abortion" - like it's nothing. Even if it is just a clump of cells, it's cells that contain your DNA and your partner's (lover's? husband's?) DNA. It's a part of you, even if it does look like a kidney bean... But I respect your right to choose, even if it isn't the choice I'd make.

06-11-2011 at 10:52 AM

well best of luck for a positive outcome for august. i think it taught you much more than you realize. it might have not enabled you to be a caring mother, but it Certainly taught you what Not to be ^u^ and as for your last part, i think you made a difference though, touched lives (of your friends) and im sure on some level Someone would be sad if you hadn't done what you did and will do.

06-11-2011 at 10:05 AM

Well, if things don't go as planned after August then I'm going to pretty much give up hope actually. It means I'll have to give up all my rabbits, my cat, and my possessions so I can find some place to live because I can't stand the second-hand smoke I have to put up with right now. But if things do go as planned, then heck yes I have a bunch of things to live for. I believe I turned out far better than my mother, but too much like my father. We have a very dry sense of humor, and I have no real compassion or motherlyness towards kids which is why I think I'd have to adopt because I can't deal with crying, whining or anything of that sort. I need to skip up until around age 7.<br /> <br /> My mom never tried other than work, she thought just working would make things work out because that's what her mom did. It doesn't work. My life experiences would only help me be a better parent, and frankly I don't see that as enough for me. It didn't teach me crap out the world I needed to live in, school taught me about financial aid for college. They taught me how to get into college. Really useful stuff pertain to college because that was my ticket out and away.<br /> <br /> I think of it this way, if I was aborted I'm guessing I wouldn't have known it anyway. You can't understand something so subjective as a soul, but I don't think one realizes they have one until they're aware to things.

06-11-2011 at 9:20 AM

i want to know your thoughts: so you don't want anything in life badly enough to justify going through that hell, even if you accepted how you turned out? im relieved your father was there to rescue you. why i think a mother should try no matter the situation is because the parent may never know what the child wants, it's like taking the choice away from the child. denying the child to experience life. you don't see it that way? if it were me who was aborted, i'd be upset, because there are so many things i Want in life, and to be denied to make a difference, to be denied to do as my heart desires, to be denied the most basic right when im innocent, seems...wrong.

06-11-2011 at 8:59 AM

My grandmother drank 24/7, she started whenever she woke up every morning and didn't stop until she crashed later on at night. She was like that when she had her four kids too, she worked three jobs to keep up with money and food as well as beer. She isn't a person to care, she's not a person you'd want to be around. She appeared as a 'happy drunk' around me, but according to my mother and one other aunt she was very abusive when my mom was a kid. I called my dad and told me to pick me up and take me to his house on my mom's week(my parents divorced when I was around 6) because she was scaring me.<br /> <br /> The only support I had were my friends, and even they didn't know everything that was going on so they did all they could actually. I treasure my friends far more than I do my own family, and I most likely always will. I've told my dad he needs to prove himself to me as I've already proven myself to him by going onto college and getting a car, getting a job and supporting myself.<br /> <br /> But as for my mother realizing anything. It's been close to eleven years and she hasn't realized by now that I hate her for what she did to me and who I was by yelling at me and putting me down as a kid? No, she doesn't seem to get the picture.<br /> <br /> The homeless abortion. I don't know what other states do this, but I know in Maine you can get paid assistance to abort from Planned Parenthood or something like that. They don't help to take care of your child, but they'll help you abort if you're under 3 months.<br /> <br /> My mother didn't have a question in her mind about aborting me. Although I wish she had left me alone and let my dad raise me. I'm not going to comment about my brother because I don't like saying that I dislike him or hate him, it was my mom that made the choice to SUCK so I guess it's really not his fault and I don't take anything out on him anyway. I just wish he was nicer to me, because then I'd do things for him.<br /> <br /> Am I content with life? For now, slightly. Because I'm on my own for the most part, I'm doing my own thing, I'm away from most stress creators and I don't need to deal with anyone's crap. If anything, all her abuse taught me was to get angry enough to beat the living hell out of kids who dared to harass me and 'take the bull by the horns', if that's considered wise. I'm stronger because my friends lifted me up and helped me grow. My parents hardly did much of anything to help me other than supply food, clothes, and a home(which wasn't even stable mentally or emotionally). They didn't supply any of the mental or emotional needs throughout my 19 years of life so far.<br /> <br /> If I had my choice and if I knew that I was going to go through a living hell on the first 17 years of my life, I most likely rather have been aborted simply because I know I'd never take my own life for one and it's unfair to me that I was put in these situations as a kid. Not like I could up and walk away from all of it. Although I wasn't part of that ultimate choice, I pretty sure abortion didn't exist back then either.

06-11-2011 at 8:34 AM

inno i feel sympathy for you i really do. im sorry your brother is so hurt, most of my friends are resented by their parents, but they managed to get support from me and other friends and get conselling when they were old enough. what about your grandmother? she loved both of you, right? i mean, i wish she would have been good enough of a person to not take it out on you and your brother (sorry if thats out of line) i guess i assumed that every mother to be would realize if theyre going to have to try to raise a child, they should try to love them too. i guess i wish your mother tried harder, tried to be more caring. and as for the homeless thing, if the parent is homeless, i somehow Doubt they'll be able to afford surgery to abort a fetus. but most importantly, i want your opinion: are you saying you think the right choice would have been for your mother to abort you and your brother? are you not content with your life now? are you not specifically stronger and wiser from your ordeal? im trying to be as sensative as possible, you have my respect i assure you.

06-11-2011 at 8:13 AM

I guess I have a personal experience with the choice and what it can do, although it's not me but my mom and her choice.<br /> <br /> My mom was never financially ready to take on a kid, not me or my brother.<br /> <br /> After my mother got pregnant with my brother she was going to abort him when she found out. It was her own mother that forced her to not abort him and have the kid. My mom wasn't being selfish when she thought about this, she was thinking of her current position(Living at her mother's house at age 37, working and getting bad pay, couldn't even afford to feed me back then, and much more) and what would have been best.<br /> <br /> After my brother was born, she resented him and still does to this day. She's verbally abused me after the birth of my brother, she's physically freaked out on us, and I couldn't take it anymore so I moved my butt out of there as fast as I could. All because my grandmother couldn't stay out of her daughter's business.<br /> <br /> I'm not saying I didn't want a brother, I most certainly did, but my brother's life is like a living hell. It's full of confusion, hurt, and it's not okay for a little kid to be hated by his own mother. My mom was quite old when she had him, smoked, and drank a bit and he came out with a disorder as well... Which I blame on my mother's habits while she was pregnant and she did these because she was so depressed about having another kid.<br /> <br /> An abortion would have most likely kept her level in the best sense, she's far too full of pride to accept any form of 'government aid', or 'family counseling'(I should know, I tried to get her to do it) because she thinks she can do everything herself and that she and everyone else around her is fine. She's now completely blind to the pain that she causes.<br /> <br /> If it wasn't for school aided sexual education, I most likely wouldn't know anything about sex. My parents never practiced safe sex for one, and two they never talked about it even with prompting. Who would want to go to the family doctor and ask, 'What is sex?' Doctors don't major in educating about what sex is or how to use there are children here!s, they just throw birth control at you if your insurance covers it. Or at least that is how my family doctor is, and I haven't seen any difference in any other doctor either. Heck if I'd ever go to any of the other 'resources' listed, I wasn't that forward when I was that young.<br /> <br /> And it's funny.. You say 'as i said so many times before, a parent should *Try* that's all i ask.'... So you asking the parent to *try* to be a parent when they're homeless is all they should go on? Are you going to support or take the child off the streets if things fall through for the mother? Are you going to pay for the hospital room for her to give birth in? Are you going to cover any medical expenses that the child will most likely need because the mother lacked the proper nutritional care during her pregnancy?<br /> <br /> Don't say government, federal, or DHHS/child services or anything would cover that because they won't. Unless that woman happened to have Medicare(You need to be living in a home to get it too), she'd be left with a huge bill from the hospital. <br /> <br /> It's really expensive to give birth and own/have/whatever kids, especially if you want the kids to live better than you did. I'm not letting any kids I give birth to/adopt live like I am, things might work out for other people BUT WHY TAKE THE CHANCE and ruin such a young life by bringing it into the world and making it live in undesirable conditions? If you can't give more than the bare essentials, then you most likely are choosing the wrong time to have a kid. My mom never got out of that 'hole' of debt from having kids and then proceeds to take it out on us.<br /> <br /> I know there are many holes in my argument but that's what I got at 4am in the morning.

06-11-2011 at 7:45 AM

#1. They don't know they 'can't' do it until they tried. i think you're being too negative or i guess i have an extreme amount of faith in them. i think people can do anything they set their minds to. #2 i don't understand where you're going with that. are you saying teenagers can't be blamed for they couldn't Possibly have forsaw the possibility that they could still wind up pregnant (with or without prevention) or that they should be using there are children here!s or birth control? i think Nothing is stopping a teen from taking respsonsibility for the baby and becoming a parent. and yes a lot of people say they don't know how to be a parent and ect. i think being a mother is intended to be a learning experience. if they have any common sense and visit a *free* clinic then a doctor will be able to answer any questions. #3 You Totally Twisted my words. i asked if you had statistics to Back it up. how could i accuse you of making up statistics if you never even mentioned statistics????? and i think you're making excuses. saying i'd ''ignore'' it is probably an excuse because you're afraid of what you'll find. ;)

06-11-2011 at 6:45 AM

"#1 there's charity that feeds the homeless. ok lets play this game: lets say a woman wanted to be a mother so badly but could hardly feed herself. would you encourage her to abort her unborn child or think her decision is unwise? as i said so many times before, a parent should *Try* that's all i ask."<br /> <br /> Not all parents can do it though. You've got to think about those children AFTER they are born. Not while they are in the womb. What do you say after they have a miserable life, and the mother has to give up her dreams? "Sorry, you're living on the street barely able to feed your children, let alone yourself, but at least you tried!" Uh...nope. Doesn't work that way.<br /> <br /> "#2 Kids Should listen to parents, and i don't think some parents try hard enough to make them listen. and you completely ingored the rest of that paragraph, they can seek help from the interenet, other adults, friends, a doctor, the resources are out there."<br /> <br /> Do you understand the mindset of children and teenagers? The part of their brain that helps make smart, sensible decisions doesn't fully develop until after the teenage years. Most teenagers think they are invincible. As in, they think that they don't need their parents or their rules. You can't blame teenagers for this, it's part of their brains chemistry and design. Not fully developped.<br /> <br /> "#3 i wonder, is this what you believe or is there some statistic to show me otherwise??"<br /> <br /> Yes. I'm making up statistics for child abusing. Cause I'm that awful of a person. I can't think these things up. And I know better than to look them up, because you'd probably ignore it and I need to go to bed anyways.

06-11-2011 at 6:38 AM

#1 there's charity that feeds the homeless. ok lets play this game: lets say a woman wanted to be a mother so badly but could hardly feed herself. would you encourage her to abort her unborn child or think her decision is unwise? as i said so many times before, a parent should *Try* that's all i ask. #2 Kids Should listen to parents, and i don't think some parents try hard enough to make them listen. and you completely ingored the rest of that paragraph, they can seek help from the interenet, other adults, other relatives, friends, a doctor, the resources are out there. #3 i wonder, is this what you believe or is there some statistic to show me otherwise?? <br /> <br /> ***IMPORTANT**** i need to go now, i'll reply to your response sunday. i won't be on saturday.

06-11-2011 at 6:29 AM

"#1 i can see how it's appreciable, i would just rather the mother try, because although my parents are having a Extremely difficult time supporting us, we love our lives. i don't think it's about the money, i think a child can have a wonderful life even if they are bankrupt."<br /> <br /> They can, but at the same time, they can starve. It's not about the money. It's about food and healthcare and shelter. Things that are incredibly important. Cutting corners can end horribly.<br /> <br /> "#2 Well then the blame should go no where other than the child. why do they refuse to listen to their parents? if they're parents are saying no sex till theyre 18, is it really That bad of a rule? if you're going to do Anything you must be willing to accept the Result. that's why i say ra.pe is a exception, the innocent victim had it done against her will, she shouldn't before forced to take responsibility for such an outcome. and I learned Everything i need to know about sex from my friends. there's the interenet, dr's panphlets, and friendly adults who could be of help."<br /> <br /> You really don't get this do you? Kids don't listen to parents. Whether its something as small as taking a cookie when they aren't supposed to, or having sex way too early, kids don't usually have that much common sense. (Sorry to kids on the site, I'm just saying from personal experience and the general community.XD) My dad says not to curse, does that mean I don't do it? No. Yeah, that's not as bad as sex, but still. There are some things you can't completely prevent, so again, make it safe at least. Pregnancy isn't the only worry when it comes to sex.<br /> <br /> "#3 as i said, i believe majority of the time, the mother does come to love the child she bears. and i know children who have resenting parents, and they are able to accept it and moved on and are content with their lives. theres also therapy that helps a child (they don't have to be children, most times they get this help after they moved out of the house) cope with having resentful parents. and most abusive parents, aren't abusing the child because they wish they could have aborted them, but because of alcohol, drugs, and relationship problems."<br /> <br /> Uh...not true.XD I mean, yeah, she may form a bond for a short while after birth, that doesn't always last. And that comment about abuse is completely generalizing the situation. Drugs isn't the reason behind everything. Some people just beat their children, but are perfectly nice people otherwise. (And don't comment saying that is impossible. There are plenty of people who are role models in this community that are later arrested for abusing their child.)

06-11-2011 at 6:22 AM

#1 i can see how it's appreciable, i would just rather the mother try, because although my parents are having a Extremely difficult time supporting us, we love our lives. i don't think it's about the money, i think a child can have a wonderful life even if they are bankrupt. #2 Well then the blame should go no where other than the child. why do they refuse to listen to their parents? if they're parents are saying no sex till theyre 18, is it really That bad of a rule? if you're going to do Anything you must be willing to accept the Result. that's why i say ra.pe is a exception, the innocent victim had it done against her will, she shouldn't before forced to take responsibility for such an outcome. and I learned Everything i need to know about sex from my friends. there's the interenet, dr's panphlets, and friendly adults who could be of help. #3 as i said, i believe majority of the time, the mother does come to love the child she bears. and i know children who have resenting parents, and they are able to accept it and moved on and are content with their lives. theres also therapy that helps a child (they don't have to be children, most times they get this help after they moved out of the house) cope with having resentful parents. and most abusive parents, aren't abusing the child because they wish they could have aborted them, but because of alcohol, drugs, and relationship problems.

06-11-2011 at 6:11 AM

"#1, the world isn't perfect. "<br /> <br /> Haha. Trust me. You don't have to tell me that. At all. But not everyone can do it, and I admire women who admit that they don't have the funds and abort the fetus. Instead of bringing an unwanted child into the world. Every child should be a wanted child. <br /> <br /> "#2 why should we depend on Schools to tell us??? what's Stopping our Parents from educating us???? i think "my school never had a sex ed program" is a horrible excuse."<br /> <br /> No, it's not. A lot of parents refuse to talk about sex at all other than say it exists and you shouldn't have sex until you're married. Yeah. That doesn't work half the time. I think schools have to get involved in it sometimes. I know of schools that have condo.ms in the office that students can take without a lecture or having to sneak around. I love this idea because it helps students prevent unwanted pregnancies, and I think prevents sex at times. It makes sex feel like less of a taboo item so that it's not as interesting and desirable. <br /> <br /> "#3 It's selfish because you're sacrificing a child for yourself. you're not doing it for the better of the child, but because you like your life the way it is. you're perfectly Able to be a mother, but are unwilling. thats Stubborn. In my Opinion, of course. And Lastly there are Child Services."<br /> <br /> Actually, it can be for the better of the child. Some of these parents who are able but unwilling, when forced to have a child will resent it and mistreat it. And oh joy. Child Services. Cause they never mess up. /sarcasm Plus the fact that who gives a crap if there is a child services? These children shouldn't have to be abused, and they shouldn't have to experience the child services system and be possibly put out there on the news and get horribly stressed out. And Child Services doesn't always get there in time. It is not selfish to abort a fetus because you don't like children. Especially if you used protection, and got pregnant anyways, and aborted after that. (Which you never actually replied to, or my "fathers vs. mothers" comment.)

06-11-2011 at 6:01 AM

#1, the world isn't perfect. #2 why should we depend on Schools to tell us??? what's Stopping our Parents from educating us???? i think "my school never had a sex ed program" is a horrible excuse. #3 It's selfish because you're sacrificing a child for yourself. you're not doing it for the better of the child, but because you like your life the way it is. you're perfectly Able to be a mother, but are unwilling. thats Stubborn. In my Opinion, of course. And Lastly there are Child Services.

06-11-2011 at 5:56 AM

Alright, let's dissect this.<br /> <br /> "do you have any idea how many finicial aids the government gives mothers?"<br /> <br /> And yet, millions of children still grow up in horrible environments because they don't have enough money to keep food on the table.<br /> <br /> "if they're too young to be mothers, then they shouldn't have sex in the first place," <br /> <br /> (I'm curious why you only mention the girls here. The would be fathers shouldn't be having sex either, but you don't seem to mention them. Why is that?) And yeah, they shouldn't. But that doesn't mean that they won't. There aren't good sex education programs put into place in our school systems to prevent this. Advocating for sex ed classes prevents at least some of these unwanted pregnancies, and teaching them safe sex. Because they are still going to have sex. Might as well teach them how to have safe sex. I don't like the idea of younger and younger people having sex, but there's not much I can do to prevent it, but I can try and make it safer, at least.<br /> <br /> "and if they don't like kids then yes it is selfish,"<br /> <br /> Wait, how the hell is it selfish? If I don't like kids, does that mean I should never have sex? Or am I just a horrible person because I don't like kids. I have a lot to say in response to this, but I'm going to wait until you elaborate first.<br /> <br /> "and do you know how many mothers hearts change after they have the baby?? i truly believe that after they have the child, they can't help but love it."<br /> <br /> Yeah. Cause that explains the millions of children that get beaten by their parents. Just because you have a kid doesn't mean you are going to love it. There are a ton of examples for this. Including ones where parents kick children out on the street, abuse them physically, or verbally...the list goes on.

06-11-2011 at 5:50 AM

do you have any idea how many finicial aids the government gives mothers who need it? if they're too young to be mothers, then they shouldn't have sex in the first place, and if they don't like kids then yes it is selfish, and do you know how many mothers hearts change after they have the baby?? i truly believe that after they have the child, they can't help but love it. and if you read my first post you'll see that i believe rape is an exception.

06-11-2011 at 5:47 AM

Wow, are you really trying to show women who get abortions as selfish people? Cause they aren't. Some don't have financial resources to care for the child, some are just plain too young, others are ra.ped, and others just don't like kids and would not like to take care of them. There are many other reasons, but there are a few right there. Like I've said before, if I got pregnant, I'd have an abortion. I'd be using protection and if I still got pregnant, I'd abort the fetus. I'm not good with kids. And if my eventual spouse wants kids, we'll adopt. (The me getting pregnant scenario was the slim chance that I end up marrying a guy, which is very unlikely in itself.)<br /> <br /> There is nothing wrong or selfish about getting an abortion. A fetus is not a human a being, and it acts in ways similar to an internal parasite. Again, as I've said in the past.

06-11-2011 at 5:36 AM

so 'sorry, you had bad timing, come back when i think it's acceptable' is what comes to my mind when i read that. lifes supposed to be that way, unpredictable.