So let me get this straight. It's okay to marry ANYTHING if you love it. Dogs, cats, toasters? That's what I get from gays saying they should have the right to marry who or what they love.

And now you just point false accusations at me?<br /> <br /> As I have said many times before: I don't hate LGBTs. I don't see them as lesser than I. I don't think that they have any sort of illness. They are no lesser or no greater than straights.

"I never said that and I am not trying to insult anyone."<br /> <br /> <br /> ....Really? You never said that?<br /> <br /> "In my opinion, there was something mentally wrong with thoes animals."<br /> <br /> Humans are animalls, so....yeah. you did.

No, you didn't say that. You didn't have to. By denying us the simple right to marry the ones we love, and to get all the legal benefits that come with said marriage, you are classifying our love as lower than yours. You don't have to say it. It's clear in the fact that you don't support gay marriage. You don't have to hate gays, but you do view us as less. You don't think that we deserve the same rights as you (to marry the ones we love), and therefore are lower than you.<br /> <br /> And don't even try that "you have the right to marry the opposite sex" bullcrap again. That's not what marriage is about. It's about LOVE. And we can't force ourselves to love someone. It just happens. And for homosexuals, it just happens to people who happen to be of the same sex. It is still love.

<em>"So homosexuality is a mental illness now? I can't even begin to describe how just plain insulting that is."</em><br /> I never said that and I am not trying to insult anyone.

<em>"Seriously, give me one reason, one good logical reason that gays should be treated as second-class citizens. Why are you, as a presumably straight person, more of a person than me, a bisexual genderqueer? Why is your love more valid than mine? Answer me that. Why are you allowed to marry who you love, but I may not be?"</em><br /> <br /> (Even though this question was not particularly aimed at me, I'll answer it.)<br /> I was not at all ever saying that LGBTs are "lower class citizens" or that their "love was not valid". Where have I ever said that? If you insist that I think of LGBTs that way, then show me proof. I say what I mean, and I most certainly have not said that in a round-about way. If I was going to say that (which I am not), then I would have said it straight up. I have only stated that I do NOT hate LGBTs, but I have not stated that I hate LGBTs or that I think they're sick freaks of nature or anything of the like. Ever.

Also, saying this again, maybe to get it through your thick skulls: IT IS NOT A CHOICE. Thought caps would clear it up. I can't choose to be straight anymore than I can choose to be blue.

Gays can have kids via adoption if they don't want/can't have their own and In vitro fertilisation is an option if they are female. I know several lesbians who have their own kids. Marriage isn't about having babies, marriage is about being with the person you love.<br /> <br /> Not to mention the world is in no shortage of babies by any means. In fact, there are so many babies that some of them are being dumped on the orphanage doorsteps like an annoying ex. Plus, allowing gay marriage isn't going to cause everybody to go gay and stop having babies. They are ALREADY gay and that isn't going to change, so why deny them the basic human right to marry the person you love?<br /><br /> Edit; Woo, several posts while I was typing mine up. x.x<br /> <br /> <i>"Also invalid. Gay couples can adopt one of the thousands upon thousands of children abandoned in the flawed foster care system. Add into the fact that the world is overpopulated as it is. Also, if a gay couple can't marry because they can't produce children, should we not allow elderly couples to marry? What about infertile couples? Are they less of people because they can't have kids?"</i><br /> <br /> Well, guess I can't get married now either, seeing as I am straight but never want kids. Bummer dude. :&lt;

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Also invalid. Gay couples can adopt one of the thousands upon thousands of children abandoned in the flawed foster care system. Add into the fact that the world is overpopulated as it is. Also, if a gay couple can't marry because they can't produce children, should we not allow elderly couples to marry? What about infertile couples? Are they less of people because they can't have kids? Also, marriage isn't about producing kids. It isn't a requirement that if you get married, you MUST have kids. I won't have kids, whether I marry a man or a woman, except for the very small possibility of adopting.<br /> <br /> ....So homosexuality is a mental illness now? I can't even begin to describe how just plain insulting that is. And also, those animals were not suffering from mental illness. Black swans, for example. Most of them are homosexual and they are thriving fine. A male mates with a female just for the eggs, then chases her off so that him and his MALE partner can hatch and raise the young. Studies of black swans show that young raised by male/male couples do MUCH better than young raised by male/female couples. And in the bonobo species, if you aren't bisexual, you aren't going to make it. Sex is one of their main points of communication, as they are a more peaceful ape species. When I've observed bonobos, they are almost always doing something sexual, and it didn't matter whether it was male or female. Also, your mental illness status on homosexuality? Invalid as well, considering all major psychiatric associations have said that homosexuality is natural and normal, and cannot be changed.<br /> <br /> Got anything else you want to try? Cause those two arguments were false and invalid as well. There are NO good arguments against gay marriage. At least, I've never heard one. And I've been partaking in gay rights debates for years and have done plenty of research. There is no good, logical reason out there that Mary shouldn't be able to marry Sue in the same way that Bill can marry Joy.<br /> <br /> Also, DADT was just apparently called unconstitutional and can no longer be enforced. Strike one up for the gays, and the gays have one more up on the bigots.

Ok, well, I'm just going to sum up my opinions on gay marriage and gays in general.<br /> <br /> Let me just start by saying that I can understand that pro-gay marriage people probably think: you cannot chose your sexuality or gender position, gay people are being denied their rights to be happy and marry whoever they want to.<br /> I could see how that would make sense, but that isn't going to make me change my mind.<br /> <br /> And to answer back to some comments... I'm not an idiot. Just because I don't accept your way of thinking and I don't agree to your side of the argument does NOT make me any more or less smart than you. You saying that is like me saying that LGBTs are all loveable personed and they have something wrong in their brains that is causing them to be attracted to people of the same sex. And no, I do not in any way believe that the whole world will turn gay. I was just trying to make a point.<br /> <br /> So here we go. My reasons for not supporting LGBTs or gay marriage is not because I'm a cruel person or because I have such a hate for homosexuals. That's about as far from the truth as it gets. My reasoning is:<br /> -Homosexuality is considered sin in some religions (mine included).<br /> -Homosexuality is not what was intended in nature. Proof of this is that a <em>male and female</em> of the same species are required to reproduce. For example, you could not by any means mate a male dog with another male dog or a female dog with another female dog and expect puppies. Only if you mated a male and female dog would they be able to have puppies.<br /> -I believe that it is a choice -- not a simple choice -- but still a choice, to be homosexual. In fact, one of my relatives was a lesbian all her life, and then what do you know, she happily married a man and even had children with him. They are still to this day living together. If you "can't chose your sexuality any more than you can choose your eye color", then how can your sexuality change? If sexuality is some trait that you are born with, then this must not have been possible, but it did happen.<br /> -And as I have said before, the point of a natural life is to help your species survive. Homosexuals cannot reproduce. Therefore, a species with mostly/only homosexuals would not survive.<br /> (And just to be clear, the last part was not expected by me to be true or to ever become true. I thought it went without saying that it was just an exaggeration to make a point.)<br /> <br /> And lastly, I don't hate or bash LGBTs. I just do not support it because of my beliefs. I most certainly WILL consider your half of the argument and make my best attempt to understand it. But if you will not let me have my opinion without pointing fingers and calling me mean, cruel, hateful, ignorant, etc, then there really is no debate here. I would have not made this topic in the debate section if I was not open-minded enough to allow debate on this situation.